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If the reality of the events were later proven, yes you would.
by crtasm 4y ago
If the reality of the events were later proven, yes you would.
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y agoIf that happens, then it didn't ultimately succeed. By definition.
- macintux 4y agoMoney, imprisonment, trauma, stress, career destroyed...how much "success" do you want?
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y agoI fully take your point about damage done, sure, but framing someone is an act of deception. If it is _ultimately_ uncovered, then the deception did not hold.
- robswc 4y agoYou make a really good point. However, nobody would "frame" someone for deception's sake. There's gotta be an underlying motive. If the deception works to achieve that goal (or even 90% of it) I'd say its pretty successful. I agree it's a weird gray area though and you're correct that a "perfect framing" would never be found out.
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago> If the deception works to achieve that goal (or even 90% of it) I'd say its pretty successful. That is true, but also anyone (With the usual exception of "untouchable" state agencies) who is found out to be framing someone, can expect to be prosecuted, regardless of if their frame was found before the intended damage was done, or after. "Perverting the Course of Justice" is a serious crime, and a frame qualifies as such: https://www.stoneking.co.uk/literature/e-bulletins/perverting-the-course-justice https://www.stoneking.co.uk/literature/e-bulletins/pervertin...
- lazide 4y agoBy ‘expect to be prosecuted’ i think you mean ‘can expect to be prosecuted only in a tiny percentage of high profile cases’. Even murders have less than a 50% clearance rate.
- pencilguin 4y ago> "nobody would frame someone for deception's sake" What you must have meant is that most people would not. I have known people who certainly would, even without any antipathy toward the person framed, just because they could. Stir in a trace of resentment, and they would go out of their way to do it. Maybe you have heard of Alex Jones, Roger Stone, or Steve Bannon? They have ardent fans.
- robswc 4y agoWell sure, but I mean all of those ppl mentioned have an underlying motive. I don't see even them going "oh, today I'll try to incriminate a random person" lol. Their actions bring them notoriety.
- pencilguin 4y agoThey could do anything else, but chose what they do. They do it because it is what they like doing. Their fans, who get no publicity, admire them for their actual ratfucking activity. ("Ratfucking" here is a technical term in politics.)
- dylan604 4y agoIt depends on the ultimate goal of the one doing the framing though. If it was to just get someone removed from their position, it doesn't matter if it is later found to have been a case of being framed. It is unlikely the person will be reinstated. So in those cases, the framing was successful.
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y agoThis is why there are usually legal penalties for framing someone - so that "it does matter". If someone in a corporate setting gained a position by framing a rival, and it was then found out, there's a "wrongful termination" lawsuit against the company waiting to happen. Why would HR let the culprit continue in that position? Getting fired for malfeasance is IMHO not exactly "success". This is only a _risk_ not a certainty for the criminal who does it, but being found out does matter.
- dylan604 4y agoThis type of thing does not necessarily mean that the person doing the framing is going to be the one replacing the job role. It doesn't even have to be done from an employee in the company. It could be done for any number of reasons. Someone from a competitor does it so that their company gets the benefit vs personal benefit. So so many other possibilities. In these situations, the person that filled the role is not guilty of anything.
- quickthrower2 4y agoIt is as good as you will get on a public forum. Unless you want to be an accessory and have someone DM you their success story!