3 ms·

And this scenario is why the billionaires are building survival shelters in NZ.

7373737373 4y ago
I don't get how that is a viable survival attempt. Surely NZ must be targeted all over when this has already become a meme
- krisoft 4y ago
  > Surely NZ must be targeted all over when this has already become a meme Why would that be the case? Destroying rich people is not the goal of nuclear weapons. (There are much easier ways to kill them, if a nuclear armed state wishes so.) > I don't get how that is a viable survival attempt. New Zeland doesn’t have nuclear weapons. This is their declared policy. In case of a global nuclear conflict you can waste warheads on them, but any warheads aimed at them have better use against the weapons or the cities of your nuclear armed enemies. (Either as direct means of preventing a launch against you, or as a retaliation to preempt an attack with.) It is also very far from almost anywhere. Which helps in three ways: it is unlikely that the country gets dragged into some neighbourly small scale war by accident, it makes the country less threatening in a post-apocalyptic world, and it somewhat protects the country from radioactive fallout. Is it guaranteed that there won’t be a nuclear attack agains NZ? No, of course there are no hard guarantees about anything. But on a strategical level it is reasonable to expect to be safer than many other places.
  - moistly 4y ago
    The Māori have a contentious relationship with the colonialists who took their land. I would not expect them to welcome the very people that are to blame for tossing nukes around. They are ferocious warriors and they will take back their islands.
    - data_maan 4y ago
      How would be wonderfully ironic would it be, if a well-known Google shareholder flees to his private NZ residence, only to be finished off by Māori. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58128475.amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-581... I think once an entire, visible class of people from the enemy (e.g. from Russia's view, the Silicon Valley millionaires) flock to a place, the place becomes visible on the global map and probability rises that it might just get a rocket. The safest places are probably also those places that Larry Page would now like, like poor third-world countries that yet have some level of autarky.
    - krisoft 4y ago
      I’m sure there will be all kind of security threats. But you see that is nothing new. If you have that much you need some level of security to protect yourself. I don’t btw how you imagine this btw. It is not like the millionares would arrive with fanfare and start a procession around the island. There won’t be announcements on the news that so and so is now here taking your land. They won’t arrive and start evicting Māori. The land is already theirs. Somewhere in New Zealand there are houses right as we speak (probably very nice ones!) owned by foreign millionaires. This is much more likely to how it will happen: A non-descript jet arrives at an airport where jets arrive all the time. A black car takes the passengers to their own holiday home. Probably a gated compound at the edge of a smaller city. If anyone is watching the place they notice that the lights stay on more often in the last few days. But it is hard to get emotional about that. And then suddenly the news announce that something very bad happened at a far away place. That is it.
krylon 4y ago
I've been wondering, though - those don't really help you unless you move there full-time. I think that most flights would be cancelled in the aftermath of a nuclear war, and even if you have a private plane, a nuclear explosion wouldn't have to that close to fry enough of the electronics to ground that plane.
- sneak 4y ago
  Nevermind that you’d have about 10-15 minutes from launch of the inbound missile to get out of the urban center you inhabit, get to your plane, take off, and get 20 miles away. You’d basically need a helicopter with you at all times, and realtime ICBM alert data. Not impossible, but not available to average hundred millionaires.

I don't get how that is a viable survival attempt. Surely NZ must be targeted all over when this has already become a meme

krisoft 4y ago
> Surely NZ must be targeted all over when this has already become a meme Why would that be the case? Destroying rich people is not the goal of nuclear weapons. (There are much easier ways to kill them, if a nuclear armed state wishes so.) > I don't get how that is a viable survival attempt. New Zeland doesn’t have nuclear weapons. This is their declared policy. In case of a global nuclear conflict you can waste warheads on them, but any warheads aimed at them have better use against the weapons or the cities of your nuclear armed enemies. (Either as direct means of preventing a launch against you, or as a retaliation to preempt an attack with.) It is also very far from almost anywhere. Which helps in three ways: it is unlikely that the country gets dragged into some neighbourly small scale war by accident, it makes the country less threatening in a post-apocalyptic world, and it somewhat protects the country from radioactive fallout. Is it guaranteed that there won’t be a nuclear attack agains NZ? No, of course there are no hard guarantees about anything. But on a strategical level it is reasonable to expect to be safer than many other places.
- moistly 4y ago
  The Māori have a contentious relationship with the colonialists who took their land. I would not expect them to welcome the very people that are to blame for tossing nukes around. They are ferocious warriors and they will take back their islands.
  - data_maan 4y ago
    How would be wonderfully ironic would it be, if a well-known Google shareholder flees to his private NZ residence, only to be finished off by Māori. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58128475.amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-581... I think once an entire, visible class of people from the enemy (e.g. from Russia's view, the Silicon Valley millionaires) flock to a place, the place becomes visible on the global map and probability rises that it might just get a rocket. The safest places are probably also those places that Larry Page would now like, like poor third-world countries that yet have some level of autarky.
  - krisoft 4y ago
    I’m sure there will be all kind of security threats. But you see that is nothing new. If you have that much you need some level of security to protect yourself. I don’t btw how you imagine this btw. It is not like the millionares would arrive with fanfare and start a procession around the island. There won’t be announcements on the news that so and so is now here taking your land. They won’t arrive and start evicting Māori. The land is already theirs. Somewhere in New Zealand there are houses right as we speak (probably very nice ones!) owned by foreign millionaires. This is much more likely to how it will happen: A non-descript jet arrives at an airport where jets arrive all the time. A black car takes the passengers to their own holiday home. Probably a gated compound at the edge of a smaller city. If anyone is watching the place they notice that the lights stay on more often in the last few days. But it is hard to get emotional about that. And then suddenly the news announce that something very bad happened at a far away place. That is it.

krylon 4y ago

I've been wondering, though - those don't really help you unless you move there full-time. I think that most flights would be cancelled in the aftermath of a nuclear war, and even if you have a private plane, a nuclear explosion wouldn't have to that close to fry enough of the electronics to ground that plane.

sneak 4y ago
Nevermind that you’d have about 10-15 minutes from launch of the inbound missile to get out of the urban center you inhabit, get to your plane, take off, and get 20 miles away. You’d basically need a helicopter with you at all times, and realtime ICBM alert data. Not impossible, but not available to average hundred millionaires.