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>she feared crypto was going to wreak — not just on the startups and investors rushing into the field, but also people betting their life savings on tokens they

>she feared crypto was going to wreak — not just on the startups and investors rushing into the field, but also people betting their life savings on tokens they’d barely researched after hearing about them online Sorry to sound rude, but if you bet all your savings on something you saw online, something you've barely searched, than you can fall a victim to any scam you come across, online or offline. You can become a victim by investing in something at the bad time, in a bad way, so being a victim is mostly your fault.

LatteLazy 4y ago
When people make money, it's because they're smarter than the average bear, they called it right, they worked hard finding that investment etc. When they lose money, it's all a scam, they were cheated, someone fooled them. I don't know why we, as a society, listen to whining like this. But people lap it up. We should just require a big red disclaimer saying "your money is at risk" and let people do what they want (and I'd do the same for shares and bonds and gold and anything else really).
- ethanbond 4y ago
  Uhhh well that’s exactly what crypto “skeptics” are asking for. Disclosure requirements that bring the risk in line with the accessibility of these “exotic instruments” to the general public, and penalties to compel compliance with those requirements.
  - mw888 4y ago
    It’s a failure of culture, not legality. All crypto is open source, if it isn’t then it truly doesn’t deserve the title. Apathy on the part of investors to allow so much privilege to founders in the form of token distribution and outright control over the protocol are as unsustainable as they are preventable. The law can come in and add friction to corruption, along with everything else, but it is only by returning to the culture in which crypto was founded that you will get anything of value - regulations or not.
    - ethanbond 4y ago
      We wouldn’t have any laws at all if cultural self-regulation could be trusted. Or more correctly: laws are a cultural self-regulation mechanism.
mw888 4y ago
The volatility, in one direction, is a bread and butter argument for the crypto skeptic. Most people investing in crypto know the risks, that’s exactly what draws them in, because it comes with huge potential upsides. No one is better at pointing out scams and schemes than other people in crypto. What the skeptics fail to realize is that they often occupy just as much, if not more of a ‘team mindset’ than those engaging in the space. Their skepticism becomes more like the failed D.A.R.E. program to reduce adolescent drug use by exaggerating the virtues of abstinence and the worst case scenarios. And ironically, they can’t even articulate the worst parts, because they never engaged enough to have a deep understanding. If you really want to find the deep dark secrets of crypto, no group will do it better than devout followers or developers of competing projects. I have read far more useful takedowns and warnings from people heavily engaged with and passionate about crypto currencies than the cynics are even capable of.
- Nursie 4y ago
  Yet the visible crypto communities on the web usually control the narrative to exclude such things, and then the major crashes (Terra/Luna, Celcius) come as a huge surprise to the adherents, where sceptic communities were warning against them for months. So while you may come across 'takedowns' from enthusiasts, wherever it is you are getting those, the public face of the community pushes these away, bans and silences negative voices and encourages speculation without a second thought.
- UncleMeat 4y ago
  My brother in law lost absolutely enormous sums because “return was guaranteed” and “there was no way to lose.” He wasn’t seeking a high volatility investment with high upside. He was following what was claimed to be foolproof advice for getting rich guaranteed.
Nursie 4y ago
> You can become a victim by investing in something at the bad time, in a bad way, so being a victim is mostly your fault. You can, but in most cases society tries to protect the naive from being defrauded by such things. We regulate what sort of things can be offered. Ponzis and Pyramids are generally verboten. As is, generally, fraudulent selling practice like advertising insured investments where they are not insured, or (for instance) selling land for development where there are government restrictions on that sort of development, those sorts of things. People are taken in by all sorts of shonky schemes, and yes, often they should know better. But that doesn't mean that we don't try to prevent them, or that the people running these schemes should escape blame.

LatteLazy 4y ago

When people make money, it's because they're smarter than the average bear, they called it right, they worked hard finding that investment etc. When they lose money, it's all a scam, they were cheated, someone fooled them. I don't know why we, as a society, listen to whining like this. But people lap it up. We should just require a big red disclaimer saying "your money is at risk" and let people do what they want (and I'd do the same for shares and bonds and gold and anything else really).

ethanbond 4y ago
Uhhh well that’s exactly what crypto “skeptics” are asking for. Disclosure requirements that bring the risk in line with the accessibility of these “exotic instruments” to the general public, and penalties to compel compliance with those requirements.
- mw888 4y ago
  It’s a failure of culture, not legality. All crypto is open source, if it isn’t then it truly doesn’t deserve the title. Apathy on the part of investors to allow so much privilege to founders in the form of token distribution and outright control over the protocol are as unsustainable as they are preventable. The law can come in and add friction to corruption, along with everything else, but it is only by returning to the culture in which crypto was founded that you will get anything of value - regulations or not.
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    We wouldn’t have any laws at all if cultural self-regulation could be trusted. Or more correctly: laws are a cultural self-regulation mechanism.

mw888 4y ago

The volatility, in one direction, is a bread and butter argument for the crypto skeptic. Most people investing in crypto know the risks, that’s exactly what draws them in, because it comes with huge potential upsides. No one is better at pointing out scams and schemes than other people in crypto. What the skeptics fail to realize is that they often occupy just as much, if not more of a ‘team mindset’ than those engaging in the space. Their skepticism becomes more like the failed D.A.R.E. program to reduce adolescent drug use by exaggerating the virtues of abstinence and the worst case scenarios. And ironically, they can’t even articulate the worst parts, because they never engaged enough to have a deep understanding. If you really want to find the deep dark secrets of crypto, no group will do it better than devout followers or developers of competing projects. I have read far more useful takedowns and warnings from people heavily engaged with and passionate about crypto currencies than the cynics are even capable of.

Nursie 4y ago
Yet the visible crypto communities on the web usually control the narrative to exclude such things, and then the major crashes (Terra/Luna, Celcius) come as a huge surprise to the adherents, where sceptic communities were warning against them for months. So while you may come across 'takedowns' from enthusiasts, wherever it is you are getting those, the public face of the community pushes these away, bans and silences negative voices and encourages speculation without a second thought.
UncleMeat 4y ago
My brother in law lost absolutely enormous sums because “return was guaranteed” and “there was no way to lose.” He wasn’t seeking a high volatility investment with high upside. He was following what was claimed to be foolproof advice for getting rich guaranteed.

Nursie 4y ago

> You can become a victim by investing in something at the bad time, in a bad way, so being a victim is mostly your fault. You can, but in most cases society tries to protect the naive from being defrauded by such things. We regulate what sort of things can be offered. Ponzis and Pyramids are generally verboten. As is, generally, fraudulent selling practice like advertising insured investments where they are not insured, or (for instance) selling land for development where there are government restrictions on that sort of development, those sorts of things. People are taken in by all sorts of shonky schemes, and yes, often they should know better. But that doesn't mean that we don't try to prevent them, or that the people running these schemes should escape blame.