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I think your attitude is unreasonable in some ways. With remote work, you can (I'm assuming) plan your day, work your hours that suits your team. This includes

I think your attitude is unreasonable in some ways. With remote work, you can (I'm assuming) plan your day, work your hours that suits your team. This includes taking your kids to the park during daylight hours, then working from say 5pm - midnight. The right to disconnect feels more about letting people disconnect "after hours". But this depends on your hours.

Rygian 4y ago
I fail to see what is unreasonable in my attitude, you give no explanation in your comment. My "team" is composed of around 700 people across Asia and Europe. My kids are in school during work hours. My 6pm—midnight slot is strictly private life and there is no reason for it to be otherwise. So, your last line contradicts the rest of your own comment.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bamboozled 4y ago
  Ok, that's all pretty subjective. I said in another comment, If you were a police officer, pilot, truck driver, deep sea diver or in numerous other professions, you'd be expected to do some weird hours and have a lot of time away from home. This is where I think people are being unreasonable. Remote work, we have it better than ever, no commutes, no time away from family, almost non-inconvenience but now, even a late night meeting is against "my time". I think with remote work, the cost of walking 50 meters, sitting in a comfortable chair and dialing into a meeting from 11pm-12am is pretty inconsequential all things considered. You can probably have the meeting in your jammies on the couch. I'm not 100% discounting that it's inconvenient, but I mean, relative to the things I've been through and others have to go through, it's minuscule in comparison. Lastly, I think you're just lucky you work for a company who allows you to just say no to meeting with your peers in other time zones. Again, you might be lucky and everyone has a good crossover with you, but many don't have this luxury, and never meeting with your peers, at least where I work, means you're not part of the team and you're getting fired. We rotate the difficult meetings in the group so we all feel some of the pain, but three is a bit of pain and I guess that's why it's called "a job" and why I'm part of a team.
  - mantas 4y ago
    Meeting ending at 00:00 means you go to sleep at 01:00 or so. That may be fine if you can sleep on till 9:00. But if the rest of the house wakes up at 6:30 to make their schedule… you’re in for a trouble.
    - bamboozled 4y ago
      That's true, it's not a good situation to be in that one having been through it myself, also someone who has had my fair share of insomnia. Staying at peoples houses who get up early and make a lot of noise after a hard night falling asleep is never much fun. A lot of good points on this thread, and even though I've always advocated for doing more async work within our team, I'll push a bit harder now.
- jenscow 4y ago
  I think the unreasonable part of it is, if the other participants were in the same mindset then there would be no meeting. I'm all for restricting employers from my personal space, however I would expect the same to be applied to all other members rather than be a special case. Personally, I tend to rotate the awkward meetings so it sucks equally rather than weighted more on someone else. As a remote worker, myself and my family are ok with that because I'm available during the daytime.
  - ianbutler 4y ago
    That's not their fault or problem though. It's the company's.
    - jenscow 4y ago
      Regardless of who's to blame, the problem still exists. However, if you're unable to work async nor be flexible to accommodate your fellow team members, then I suppose the company's recruitment process is to blame.
      - ianbutler 4y ago
        I’d agree they should be upfront about out of normal working hours meetings. I know id pass.
Eezee 4y ago
How is having a structured workday where you consistently work the same 9 how window and expecting to spend your evenings with your partner/kids/friends unreasonable?
- bamboozled 4y ago
  Honestly, if that's what you guys want, a 9-5. Go for it For me working remotely isn't just about having my ass in a different geographical location, it's about flexibility. Both in my private and professional life. I didn't say you can't spend time with your kids, but personally, working 8am-9am then 8pm-12pm doesn't sound so bad either. (for example). I find kids need to do homework and get to bed early so those times for me would work pretty well.
piva00 4y ago
The right to disconnect for me is when I don't have to care about work anymore for that day. Whenever I work some odd hours to have free time during the day this time is simply much less enjoyable. I know I will have to attend to work obligations while I'm supposedly on free time to enjoy daylight hours. This pressure is not something I can turn off at will. With remote work I appreciate having the option to use the inevitable idle time to be more efficient with house chores and such but remote work never brought me the freedom you tout... I have worked remotely in the past before COVID and tried your suggested approach, would be free during afternoons and work from 17-00, or split the day in morning and evening work. It didn't ever give me the same relaxation as I get from having free time until the end of the day.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bamboozled 4y ago
  I'm kind of the opposite, I enjoy doing things in the day and sitting on my butt at night. So there you go, we're different.

Rygian 4y ago

I fail to see what is unreasonable in my attitude, you give no explanation in your comment. My "team" is composed of around 700 people across Asia and Europe. My kids are in school during work hours. My 6pm—midnight slot is strictly private life and there is no reason for it to be otherwise. So, your last line contradicts the rest of your own comment.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bamboozled 4y ago
Ok, that's all pretty subjective. I said in another comment, If you were a police officer, pilot, truck driver, deep sea diver or in numerous other professions, you'd be expected to do some weird hours and have a lot of time away from home. This is where I think people are being unreasonable. Remote work, we have it better than ever, no commutes, no time away from family, almost non-inconvenience but now, even a late night meeting is against "my time". I think with remote work, the cost of walking 50 meters, sitting in a comfortable chair and dialing into a meeting from 11pm-12am is pretty inconsequential all things considered. You can probably have the meeting in your jammies on the couch. I'm not 100% discounting that it's inconvenient, but I mean, relative to the things I've been through and others have to go through, it's minuscule in comparison. Lastly, I think you're just lucky you work for a company who allows you to just say no to meeting with your peers in other time zones. Again, you might be lucky and everyone has a good crossover with you, but many don't have this luxury, and never meeting with your peers, at least where I work, means you're not part of the team and you're getting fired. We rotate the difficult meetings in the group so we all feel some of the pain, but three is a bit of pain and I guess that's why it's called "a job" and why I'm part of a team.
- mantas 4y ago
  Meeting ending at 00:00 means you go to sleep at 01:00 or so. That may be fine if you can sleep on till 9:00. But if the rest of the house wakes up at 6:30 to make their schedule… you’re in for a trouble.
  - bamboozled 4y ago
    That's true, it's not a good situation to be in that one having been through it myself, also someone who has had my fair share of insomnia. Staying at peoples houses who get up early and make a lot of noise after a hard night falling asleep is never much fun. A lot of good points on this thread, and even though I've always advocated for doing more async work within our team, I'll push a bit harder now.
jenscow 4y ago
I think the unreasonable part of it is, if the other participants were in the same mindset then there would be no meeting. I'm all for restricting employers from my personal space, however I would expect the same to be applied to all other members rather than be a special case. Personally, I tend to rotate the awkward meetings so it sucks equally rather than weighted more on someone else. As a remote worker, myself and my family are ok with that because I'm available during the daytime.
- ianbutler 4y ago
  That's not their fault or problem though. It's the company's.
  - jenscow 4y ago
    Regardless of who's to blame, the problem still exists. However, if you're unable to work async nor be flexible to accommodate your fellow team members, then I suppose the company's recruitment process is to blame.
    - ianbutler 4y ago
      I’d agree they should be upfront about out of normal working hours meetings. I know id pass.

Eezee 4y ago

How is having a structured workday where you consistently work the same 9 how window and expecting to spend your evenings with your partner/kids/friends unreasonable?

bamboozled 4y ago
Honestly, if that's what you guys want, a 9-5. Go for it For me working remotely isn't just about having my ass in a different geographical location, it's about flexibility. Both in my private and professional life. I didn't say you can't spend time with your kids, but personally, working 8am-9am then 8pm-12pm doesn't sound so bad either. (for example). I find kids need to do homework and get to bed early so those times for me would work pretty well.

piva00 4y ago

The right to disconnect for me is when I don't have to care about work anymore for that day. Whenever I work some odd hours to have free time during the day this time is simply much less enjoyable. I know I will have to attend to work obligations while I'm supposedly on free time to enjoy daylight hours. This pressure is not something I can turn off at will. With remote work I appreciate having the option to use the inevitable idle time to be more efficient with house chores and such but remote work never brought me the freedom you tout... I have worked remotely in the past before COVID and tried your suggested approach, would be free during afternoons and work from 17-00, or split the day in morning and evening work. It didn't ever give me the same relaxation as I get from having free time until the end of the day.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bamboozled 4y ago
I'm kind of the opposite, I enjoy doing things in the day and sitting on my butt at night. So there you go, we're different.