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Yeah I’m pretty well off thanks to the current system. But the same system is also leading to fair percentage of kids going to school hungry, people homeless or

Yeah I’m pretty well off thanks to the current system. But the same system is also leading to fair percentage of kids going to school hungry, people homeless or close to homeless (if any emergency happens) and a shitty chromebook if they are lucky and it has been getting worse. So I think the system is broken? I’m from New Zealand.

Eisenstein 4y ago
It is a bit of leap to go from 'I am doing well but some things aren't working' to 'trash it all and let's do the late 19th to early 20th century economic system again'.
- piva00 4y ago
  It's not a leap to realise that the past 20-30 years has seen an increasingly accelerating trend of wealth concentration on the top. The scraps being left on the table for the rest of us are slowly dwindling while the system actively fights any reasonable voice trying to bring these social issues to the table. We live in a world of abundance where kids in developed countries (UK, US) still go hungry, and it got worse in the past 10 years. I don't think most left-ish people like me are asking to a return of 19th/early-20th century economic models, we are asking for a return of social democratic values over the hegemony of markets and finance. It's not that hard to imbue some humanity back unto an amoral system, we know now through empiric experience that pricing simply has not taken into account human suffering and externalities wreaking havoc into our environments, we just look for more humane ways for markets to function. Left to their own devices markets will only seek profits, at all costs, we, the people and workers, are the ones who can steer it into boundaries where profit-seeking isn't, ultimately, life-destroying.
  - Eisenstein 4y ago
    The top level comment I was replying to was about removing all economic regulation. I'm not sure how that turned into 'social democratic values' but that's what you were replying to me replying to.
    - piva00 4y ago
      Sorry, I got lost in the comment thread and thought your reply was to something else. Honest mistake but I will keep my soapboxing-ish comment up as I believe there is some value for other readers.
  - Fmdmdmfmfkfmf 4y ago
    - piva00 4y ago
      You can read more in multiple articles like this [1] and associations like this [2]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/25/schools-in-england-warn-of-crisis-of-heartbreaking-rise-in-hungry-children https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/25/schools-in-... [2] https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/child-hunger-facts https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/child-hunge... Edit: did you really create a whole new smurf account just to reply to me in multiple threads? And just to keep asking questions instead of refuting anything I said?
- creakingstairs 4y ago
  For me it’s not about literally going back to Wild West but addressing this point by the other person. > A broken system is very unlikely to ever produce correct results. I agree there are plenty of net positive regulations made by good systems _at the time_. But it’s not producing good regulations _now_ and is very resistant to change.
  - Eisenstein 4y ago
    The top level person I was replying to was advocating removing all economic regulation. That is the position I am arguing against.
    - creakingstairs 4y ago
      Ah yep. My bad. I got lost in comment chains.

Eisenstein 4y ago

It is a bit of leap to go from 'I am doing well but some things aren't working' to 'trash it all and let's do the late 19th to early 20th century economic system again'.

piva00 4y ago
It's not a leap to realise that the past 20-30 years has seen an increasingly accelerating trend of wealth concentration on the top. The scraps being left on the table for the rest of us are slowly dwindling while the system actively fights any reasonable voice trying to bring these social issues to the table. We live in a world of abundance where kids in developed countries (UK, US) still go hungry, and it got worse in the past 10 years. I don't think most left-ish people like me are asking to a return of 19th/early-20th century economic models, we are asking for a return of social democratic values over the hegemony of markets and finance. It's not that hard to imbue some humanity back unto an amoral system, we know now through empiric experience that pricing simply has not taken into account human suffering and externalities wreaking havoc into our environments, we just look for more humane ways for markets to function. Left to their own devices markets will only seek profits, at all costs, we, the people and workers, are the ones who can steer it into boundaries where profit-seeking isn't, ultimately, life-destroying.
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  The top level comment I was replying to was about removing all economic regulation. I'm not sure how that turned into 'social democratic values' but that's what you were replying to me replying to.
  - piva00 4y ago
    Sorry, I got lost in the comment thread and thought your reply was to something else. Honest mistake but I will keep my soapboxing-ish comment up as I believe there is some value for other readers.
- Fmdmdmfmfkfmf 4y ago
  - piva00 4y ago
    You can read more in multiple articles like this [1] and associations like this [2]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/25/schools-in-england-warn-of-crisis-of-heartbreaking-rise-in-hungry-children https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/25/schools-in-... [2] https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/child-hunger-facts https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/child-hunge... Edit: did you really create a whole new smurf account just to reply to me in multiple threads? And just to keep asking questions instead of refuting anything I said?
creakingstairs 4y ago
For me it’s not about literally going back to Wild West but addressing this point by the other person. > A broken system is very unlikely to ever produce correct results. I agree there are plenty of net positive regulations made by good systems _at the time_. But it’s not producing good regulations _now_ and is very resistant to change.
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  The top level person I was replying to was advocating removing all economic regulation. That is the position I am arguing against.
  - creakingstairs 4y ago
    Ah yep. My bad. I got lost in comment chains.