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HN makes it easy to stifle dissent with "flag" and graying out a comment until it is "dead". That's why I always browse with "showdead" set to "yes." Most of th

HN makes it easy to stifle dissent with "flag" and graying out a comment until it is "dead". That's why I always browse with "showdead" set to "yes." Most of the dead comments deserve it, but some of them are quite interesting but don't match the values of the HN community. I've been "killed" a couple times when I didn't think I deserved it. I'm a contrarian by nature, but I value HN too much to feel bad about it. There are other places to discuss sensitive topics.

soheil 4y ago
I think a topic can be extremely sensitive and still be discussed on HN as long as it fits a certain accepted narrative. The worry is this asymmetry.
- labrador 4y ago
  > I think a topic can be extremely sensitive and still be discussed on HN I don't agree. All it takes is 4 people to downvote and flag you and you're dead
  - bombcar 4y ago
    - walterbell 4y ago
      Narrative acceptability changes over time, partly due to narratives being debated here and elsewhere. HN debate on sensitive topics is possible, but like any contested space, it requires more care and effort.
      - soheil 4y ago
        > Narrative acceptability changes over time, partly due to narratives being debated here Circular logic. What cannot be debated in the first place can never change to become an acceptable narrative at least not here.
        walterbell 4y ago
        The second sentence is a statement about activity on this site. If a story or comment is flagged incorrectly, you can email the mods. I have participated in HN debates where a comment goes through several rounds of negative and positive upvotes. > HN debate on sensitive topics is possible, but like any contested space, it requires more care and effort.
  - paulpauper 4y ago
    Enough consecutive downvotes to make the score to go to -4.
    - labrador 4y ago
      I didn't realize this but it would be easy to get around with alt accounts
      - pclmulqdq 4y ago
        I assume that the HN mod team (or maybe just dang) can find out if you are doing this. The HN submission algorithm is very sensitive to small numbers of upvotes early on in a submission's life. Using a few alt accounts to boost your posts would have an outsized effect here.
        soheil 4y ago
        Not sure why only a few alt accounts instead of perhaps thousands would be used by someone who would want to influence what topics get discussed and what don't. Also not difficult to use a reverse exponential decay function to modulate votes.
        Eisenstein 4y ago
        How does one get a few thousand accounts with more than the karma limit needed to be able to downvote?
        soheil 4y ago
        Auto submit tech news articles periodiclly?
        pclmulqdq 4y ago
        I think they look for cliques in the graph of people who upvote certain content. Even with "natural" vote times, you may get caught doing this over and over. This is one of the ways that Reddit and Twitter search for bots too.
  - soheil 4y ago
    While others can vouch for you to resurrect you from death
    - labrador 4y ago
      That's never happened to me. Once I'm dead I'm dead. I sometimes get my satisfaction later on, for example when Bitcoin was popular on HN I was one of the few people early on to call it a waste of electricity. Now that's not so controversial.
      - soheil 4y ago
        But the vouch button does exist, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't work for vast majority of dead comments, since they probably wouldn't be dead in the first place if enough people upvoted them.
        labrador 4y ago
        I guess I don't have enough karma to have a vouch link. The comment by bombcar in this thread is dead and there's no vouch on it.
        grzm 4y ago
        I think you need to click on the comment timestamp to view the comment in isolation for "vouch" to appear.
        labrador 4y ago
        Ok, now I see it. Thanks, learn something new every day
      - curmudgeon22 4y ago
        Vouching does rely on someone to take the extra effort relative to a downvote, so I think it's safe to assume vouching is more rare.
      - deleted 4y ago
masterphilo 4y ago
> There are other places to discuss sensitive topics Curious to hear about those other places.
- labrador 4y ago
  Reddit has a system that works better for controversy. Then if I really want to discuss a crazy idea I go on 4chan/pol/. There are a small percentage of really bright people on 4chan/pol/ who don't fit into normal society (mostly autism it seems) that can sometimes offer some surprising insights. People always focus on the racism on 4chan, but I ignore it because a lot of the time it's an identifier. You have to show some willingness to say things offensive to the normies to prove you are one of them. I'm not willing to do that so I get told to go back to Reddit often. It's uncanny how they know I don't belong there and not just because I don't say hateful things. They are very sensitive to tone.
  - bitwize 4y ago
    The problem is, shitposting internet racism is a gateway to actual Nazism.
    - PixyMisa 4y ago
      There are about fifty Nazis left on the entire planet. If it's a gateway, someone bricked it up a long time ago.
    - labrador 4y ago
      If you're a teenager, which I'm not. And like I said, I don't post that stuff. I ignore it and then hope for an intelligent response to something I said and often get it. Barring that, 4chan is sometimes funny because it's so off the wall and out of left field.
    - bell-cot 4y ago
      Nitpick: "Nazism" (espec. capitalized) is a particular brand of white-supremacy racism. One which (by the book) held most white people to be non-members of its Master Race. Vs. there is lot of racism on the internet which is "non-white on non-white". One example: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebook-genocide.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebo...

soheil 4y ago

I think a topic can be extremely sensitive and still be discussed on HN as long as it fits a certain accepted narrative. The worry is this asymmetry.

labrador 4y ago
> I think a topic can be extremely sensitive and still be discussed on HN I don't agree. All it takes is 4 people to downvote and flag you and you're dead
- bombcar 4y ago
  - walterbell 4y ago
    Narrative acceptability changes over time, partly due to narratives being debated here and elsewhere. HN debate on sensitive topics is possible, but like any contested space, it requires more care and effort.
    - soheil 4y ago
      > Narrative acceptability changes over time, partly due to narratives being debated here Circular logic. What cannot be debated in the first place can never change to become an acceptable narrative at least not here.
      - walterbell 4y ago
        The second sentence is a statement about activity on this site. If a story or comment is flagged incorrectly, you can email the mods. I have participated in HN debates where a comment goes through several rounds of negative and positive upvotes. > HN debate on sensitive topics is possible, but like any contested space, it requires more care and effort.
- paulpauper 4y ago
  Enough consecutive downvotes to make the score to go to -4.
  - labrador 4y ago
    I didn't realize this but it would be easy to get around with alt accounts
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago
      I assume that the HN mod team (or maybe just dang) can find out if you are doing this. The HN submission algorithm is very sensitive to small numbers of upvotes early on in a submission's life. Using a few alt accounts to boost your posts would have an outsized effect here.
      - soheil 4y ago
        Not sure why only a few alt accounts instead of perhaps thousands would be used by someone who would want to influence what topics get discussed and what don't. Also not difficult to use a reverse exponential decay function to modulate votes.
        Eisenstein 4y ago
        How does one get a few thousand accounts with more than the karma limit needed to be able to downvote?
        soheil 4y ago
        Auto submit tech news articles periodiclly?
        pclmulqdq 4y ago
        I think they look for cliques in the graph of people who upvote certain content. Even with "natural" vote times, you may get caught doing this over and over. This is one of the ways that Reddit and Twitter search for bots too.
- soheil 4y ago
  While others can vouch for you to resurrect you from death
  - labrador 4y ago
    That's never happened to me. Once I'm dead I'm dead. I sometimes get my satisfaction later on, for example when Bitcoin was popular on HN I was one of the few people early on to call it a waste of electricity. Now that's not so controversial.
    - soheil 4y ago
      But the vouch button does exist, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't work for vast majority of dead comments, since they probably wouldn't be dead in the first place if enough people upvoted them.
      - labrador 4y ago
        I guess I don't have enough karma to have a vouch link. The comment by bombcar in this thread is dead and there's no vouch on it.
        grzm 4y ago
        I think you need to click on the comment timestamp to view the comment in isolation for "vouch" to appear.
        labrador 4y ago
        Ok, now I see it. Thanks, learn something new every day
    - curmudgeon22 4y ago
      Vouching does rely on someone to take the extra effort relative to a downvote, so I think it's safe to assume vouching is more rare.
    - deleted 4y ago

masterphilo 4y ago

> There are other places to discuss sensitive topics Curious to hear about those other places.

labrador 4y ago
Reddit has a system that works better for controversy. Then if I really want to discuss a crazy idea I go on 4chan/pol/. There are a small percentage of really bright people on 4chan/pol/ who don't fit into normal society (mostly autism it seems) that can sometimes offer some surprising insights. People always focus on the racism on 4chan, but I ignore it because a lot of the time it's an identifier. You have to show some willingness to say things offensive to the normies to prove you are one of them. I'm not willing to do that so I get told to go back to Reddit often. It's uncanny how they know I don't belong there and not just because I don't say hateful things. They are very sensitive to tone.
- bitwize 4y ago
  The problem is, shitposting internet racism is a gateway to actual Nazism.
  - PixyMisa 4y ago
    There are about fifty Nazis left on the entire planet. If it's a gateway, someone bricked it up a long time ago.
  - labrador 4y ago
    If you're a teenager, which I'm not. And like I said, I don't post that stuff. I ignore it and then hope for an intelligent response to something I said and often get it. Barring that, 4chan is sometimes funny because it's so off the wall and out of left field.
  - bell-cot 4y ago
    Nitpick: "Nazism" (espec. capitalized) is a particular brand of white-supremacy racism. One which (by the book) held most white people to be non-members of its Master Race. Vs. there is lot of racism on the internet which is "non-white on non-white". One example: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebook-genocide.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebo...