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It's so annoying to me that there's one browser that's holding everyone back. They also make it so that no one can use anything but their browser engine on mobi
by soperj 4y ago
It's so annoying to me that there's one browser that's holding everyone back. They also make it so that no one can use anything but their browser engine on mobile phones so they're harder to ignore.
- the_gastropod 4y agoReading between the lines, it seems like you're suggesting Safari is that browser holding everyone back. The Compatibility section in this article doesn't seem to support that.
- soperj 4y agoAhhh, that's the version number. I thought that's how % of the spec that they actually supported.
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
- dmitriid 4y agoWhen it comes to CSS Safari is rarely behind, and often ahead. When it comes to Chrome-only non-standards Safari is right where it needs to be: not implementing this bullshit.
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- azemetre 4y agoThank you for calling this out. I feel like there is a psyops campaign paid for by Google denouncing any organization/tech that doesn't blindly follow their non-standard standards.
- soperj 4y agoI don't even use chrome, nor do I develop against it.
- eyelidlessness 4y agoThen presuming you use Firefox, the only viable non-Chromium alternative that’s mature enough to fit your implicit preference, you’re surely aware there are a wide variety of things not supported in that browser too. If you’re inclined to look for patterns, you’ll find that quite a lot of them overlap with Safari—either for the same privacy-respecting reasons, or the same standards process-respecting reasons, or the same second implementation in the standardization process reasons. It’s good that both browsers are a hindrance to Google just shipping stuff and that stuff becoming a de facto web standard. It’s even good that they have different priorities because that gives them different perspectives from which to catch mistakes before they’re almost totally irreversible.
- spoils19 4y agoThis is absolutely true in my experiences. I don't think I've genuinely met one Chrome user who hasn't beamed at the prospect of using Safari, yet in light discussions they seem to promote Google products extensively.
- dmitriid 4y agoGoogle has a very large share of developers' minds. They have a large network of "developer advocates" whose only job is to promote Google and Chrome under the guise of promoting web standards. And, of course, these "web advocates" will often go out of their way to vilify other browsers. They own web.dev where they push out propaganda pieces and present their own work as fait accompli often without as much as mentioning that no, these are not standards. Coupled with the fact that Chrome is actually the most dev-friendly browser, and you have huge swaths of dev community lapping up whatever Chrome throws over the wall without a single second thought.
- hot_gril 4y agoI mostly agree, but mobile Safari seems intentionally behind on PWAs, and I do blame Apple's obvious conflict of interest with the App Store. Biggest thing is lack of support for notifications, though supposedly that's finally changing after years: https://www.searchenginejournal.com/web-push-coming-to-ios/464365/ https://www.searchenginejournal.com/web-push-coming-to-ios/4...
- dmitriid 4y ago> mobile Safari seems intentionally behind on PWAs There's no such thing as a PWA. There are a dozen disparate standards, and everyone has their own idea which collection of standards constitutes a PWA. Mobile Safari supports the absolute vast majority of those standards. IIRC the only "major" standard from that bunch that mobile Safari didn't support was push notifications.
- mccorrinall 4y agoThe still don’t support web push & notifications on ios and ipados. Even when you enable push api and notifications in experimental settings of safari it just doesn’t work. Or am I doing something wrong?
- hot_gril 4y agoYou're not missing anything. It's not supported. That's one of the most important features. The other thing is that no website can ask you to install it like on Android. You have to go to the "share" menu and add to homescreen. Most users don't know about that.
- woojoo666 4y agoSafari is so behind in terms of lack of support for free media formats/codecs like webm, webp, and av1. You can't even switch browsers to view them, since it's all webkit
- dmitriid 4y ago> support for free media formats/codecs like webm, webp, and av1. You mean codecs developed exclusively by Google (often in rapid succession) and which Google aggressively pushes by abusing its dominant position https://www.protocol.com/youtube-tv-roku-issues https://www.protocol.com/youtube-tv-roku-issues
- woojoo666 4y agoWhat's an alternative free media format? Not everything Google does is bad. In fact if you're against companies abusing their dominant position, Apple is perhaps one of the worst. Worth noting that Safari is starting to roll out support for VP9, one of the formats by Google. Unfortunately this format is already rather outdated, and if Apple was going to support a free format now they should have gone for AV1. Which goes to show how slow they are
- alwillis 4y agoSafari is so behind in terms of lack of support for free media formats/codecs like webm, webp, and av1 Both WebM [1] and WebP [2] have been supported by Safari for nearly two years now. WebKit added support for AVIF (essentially the single-frame version of AV1) back in September [3]; AV1 is expected during the iOS 16/macOS Ventura release cycle. [1]: https://webkit.org/blog/11648/new-webkit-features-in-safari-14-1/ https://webkit.org/blog/11648/new-webkit-features-in-safari-... [2]: https://webkit.org/blog/11340/new-webkit-features-in-safari-14/ https://webkit.org/blog/11340/new-webkit-features-in-safari-... [3]: https://webkit.org/blog/13152/webkit-features-in-safari-16-0/ https://webkit.org/blog/13152/webkit-features-in-safari-16-0...
- woojoo666 4y ago> Both WebM [1] and WebP [2] have been supported by Safari for nearly two years now. Which was incredibly late. For example, Firefox had it since v28 [1], which was 8 years ago. Firefox has also supported AV1 for 3 years already. And obviously Chrome supported both for longer [1]: https://caniuse.com/webm https://caniuse.com/webm [2]: https://caniuse.com/av1 https://caniuse.com/av1
- Sateeshm 4y agoI was testing my app on safari about a year ago, at the time even a simple property like transform required webkit vendor prefix.
- dmitriid 4y agoSafari hasn't required a prefix since version 9 (except for the backface-visibility property which I personally never heard of) https://caniuse.com/?search=transform https://caniuse.com/?search=transform Last release of version 9 was in 2016, 6 years ago.
- ricardobayes 4y agoSo what about lookbehind regex for example? Every single major browser supports it apart from Safari. https://caniuse.com/js-regexp-lookbehind https://caniuse.com/js-regexp-lookbehind
- dmitriid 4y agoYes, there are a few specs where I wish they were faster in implementing them.
- lenkite 4y agoI just wish Safari was available on other operating systems - windows, android, etc.
- Bellend 4y agoI like how you need a mac to test safari and how the ios animated address bar destroys any easy layout for applications.
- eyelidlessness 4y agoThey literally added new viewport units specifically to address variably sized browser UI. I do agree you shouldn’t need to buy Apple hardware or pay anyone else money to test in their web browser though.
- miiiiiike 4y agoThis is repeated over and over again, but, it’s not true when it comes to Safari’s support for CSS. Now, requiring a Mac to debug JS on mobile Safari.. That’s irritating.
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- culi 4y agoYup. The post mentioned Interop 2022 which I've been following pretty closely and it's been interesting to see how Chrome has been the one lagging behind usually. Safari has actually taken the lead recently https://wpt.fyi/interop-2022 https://wpt.fyi/interop-2022
- trillic 4y agoCan I get a boo to the Google/Chromium shill? Apple implements the standard quite nicely. They don’t actively implement googles DRM and tracking incentivized, non-standardized extensions. As an independent web developer, I’ll be developing to the standard and actively avoiding non-standard “google extensions” to the web ecosystem.
- soperj 4y agoAhh yes, I made this account in 2012 just to shill for a company who's products I actively don't use. Scram.
- 5350-uiop-1130 4y agoalso Safari dev tools are pure garbage, the worst i've used since IE 10. constantly crashes for no reason, refuses to select elements unless you close and re-open it, a weirdly stubborn cache, just so much worse than the chromium/firefox devtools. debugging in Safari is a major pain in the ass. and of all the browsers, Safari is the one that tends to render differently from others in a unwanted way. working with dozens of written languages, the ways it f~ks up text rendering and copy wrapping is sometimes baffling too. and this is without talking about the weird UI, sometimes I try updating a URL and the cursor just starts deleting characters from the wrong place. it's so annoying. and a lack of status bar, unless you manually enable it. what a piece of sh~t browser.
- jacobp100 4y agoSafari dev tools has some good features Chrome doesn’t - like being able to override requests and responses in the network tab