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It's so interesting, these waves of CSS improvements. Before the flexbox/grid arrival, there were years of near-zero progress. The flexbox/grid release, uniqu
by fleddr 4y ago
It's so interesting, these waves of CSS improvements.
Before the flexbox/grid arrival, there were years of near-zero progress.
The flexbox/grid release, uniquely coordinated across browsers (for once), was an excellent milestone, but not really a movement.
These last 2 years though feel almost like a revolution in comparison to CSS's history. Somebody is pushing very hard.
These are some very serious improvements that address core needs and gaps. In particular scaling CSS in large applications, with things like @layers, @scope and container queries.
The second goal seems to be to make CSS preprocessors obsolete.
Compliments to whoever is working on this. My favorite upcoming one has to be toggle, controversial or not, the idea that for simple interactions you don't even require JS anymore is a good development.
The luxury problem this creates is the slow adoption rate. Something extraordinarily powerful as grid is still barely used. Old habits die hard.
- soperj 4y agoIt's so annoying to me that there's one browser that's holding everyone back. They also make it so that no one can use anything but their browser engine on mobile phones so they're harder to ignore.
- the_gastropod 4y agoReading between the lines, it seems like you're suggesting Safari is that browser holding everyone back. The Compatibility section in this article doesn't seem to support that.
- soperj 4y agoAhhh, that's the version number. I thought that's how % of the spec that they actually supported.
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
- dmitriid 4y agoWhen it comes to CSS Safari is rarely behind, and often ahead. When it comes to Chrome-only non-standards Safari is right where it needs to be: not implementing this bullshit.
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- azemetre 4y agoThank you for calling this out. I feel like there is a psyops campaign paid for by Google denouncing any organization/tech that doesn't blindly follow their non-standard standards.
- soperj 4y agoI don't even use chrome, nor do I develop against it.
- eyelidlessness 4y agoThen presuming you use Firefox, the only viable non-Chromium alternative that’s mature enough to fit your implicit preference, you’re surely aware there are a wide variety of things not supported in that browser too. If you’re inclined to look for patterns, you’ll find that quite a lot of them overlap with Safari—either for the same privacy-respecting reasons, or the same standards process-respecting reasons, or the same second implementation in the standardization process reasons. It’s good that both browsers are a hindrance to Google just shipping stuff and that stuff becoming a de facto web standard. It’s even good that they have different priorities because that gives them different perspectives from which to catch mistakes before they’re almost totally irreversible.
- spoils19 4y agoThis is absolutely true in my experiences. I don't think I've genuinely met one Chrome user who hasn't beamed at the prospect of using Safari, yet in light discussions they seem to promote Google products extensively.
- Bellend 4y agoI like how you need a mac to test safari and how the ios animated address bar destroys any easy layout for applications.
- eyelidlessness 4y agoThey literally added new viewport units specifically to address variably sized browser UI. I do agree you shouldn’t need to buy Apple hardware or pay anyone else money to test in their web browser though.
- miiiiiike 4y agoThis is repeated over and over again, but, it’s not true when it comes to Safari’s support for CSS. Now, requiring a Mac to debug JS on mobile Safari.. That’s irritating.
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- culi 4y agoYup. The post mentioned Interop 2022 which I've been following pretty closely and it's been interesting to see how Chrome has been the one lagging behind usually. Safari has actually taken the lead recently https://wpt.fyi/interop-2022 https://wpt.fyi/interop-2022
- trillic 4y agoCan I get a boo to the Google/Chromium shill? Apple implements the standard quite nicely. They don’t actively implement googles DRM and tracking incentivized, non-standardized extensions. As an independent web developer, I’ll be developing to the standard and actively avoiding non-standard “google extensions” to the web ecosystem.
- soperj 4y agoAhh yes, I made this account in 2012 just to shill for a company who's products I actively don't use. Scram.
- 5350-uiop-1130 4y agoalso Safari dev tools are pure garbage, the worst i've used since IE 10. constantly crashes for no reason, refuses to select elements unless you close and re-open it, a weirdly stubborn cache, just so much worse than the chromium/firefox devtools. debugging in Safari is a major pain in the ass. and of all the browsers, Safari is the one that tends to render differently from others in a unwanted way. working with dozens of written languages, the ways it f~ks up text rendering and copy wrapping is sometimes baffling too. and this is without talking about the weird UI, sometimes I try updating a URL and the cursor just starts deleting characters from the wrong place. it's so annoying. and a lack of status bar, unless you manually enable it. what a piece of sh~t browser.
- jacobp100 4y agoSafari dev tools has some good features Chrome doesn’t - like being able to override requests and responses in the network tab
- grncdr 4y agoI agree with the gist of what you’re saying, but flexbox was widely supported (and used) for years before grid.