6 ms·

There was a disabled guy in the Bay Area going around suing all sorts of restaurants and other places if they didn't have ramps. Small hole in the wall restaur

There was a disabled guy in the Bay Area going around suing all sorts of restaurants and other places if they didn't have ramps. Small hole in the wall restaurants couldn't afford renovations and had to just close, resulting in more Mc-chain restaurants moving in that can afford to play ball. Disabled people need access, but I (perhaps controversially) don't think they need access to 100% of the things. I'm reminded of that article from a few years ago "hiking has an able-ist problem" because hiking trails weren't wheelchair accessible. We can't fix all the things for people in wheelchairs (paved trails up half-dome?) or people who are blind (should the trails have megaphones every 10 feet saying "watch your step here because there's rocks"?).

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
baggy_trough 4y ago
The disabled litigant is of course bottom feeding scum, but the real fault is with the law itself.
- themitigating 4y ago
  No, the fault is the person who abuses it. That's a choice. The law wasn't created with abuse in mind and while you could claim it should have been written better That's just a mistake. Only one party here is purposeful in their actions
  - xbar 4y ago
    Maybe the law isn't well written.
  - redox99 4y ago
    What abuse in mind? I don't know what the law says, but based on what the other comment claims, the law requires ramps? I don't see why demanding that places have ramps as the law requires constitutes "abuse" to you.
themitigating 4y ago
If you're handicapped you don't expect to be able to go hiking. However you do expect to be able to go to restaurants
- Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
  Why do you expect that?
  - TheNorthman 4y ago
    I mean, aside from the obvious principle of reasonable accommodation guaranteed by the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities? Or, perhaps more specifically the guarantee from Article 19, barring segregation from the community at large? Expecting the declarations on human rights to be followed is not unreasonable.
    - Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
      should all resturants also be vegan? Nut free? We don't want to segregate, right? Nobody "deserves" to go to a resturant.
      - TheNorthman 4y ago
        Is being vegan a disability? Regarding nuts, I don't know about the rest of the world but in my country, restaurants are required to disclose allergens in their foods, if asked.
        tasuki 4y ago
        Disclosing allergens is a different thing though: that's akin to "disclosing" that the restaurant isn't wheelchair accessible. Should all restaurants also be required to serve food for whatever combination of allergies one might have? My mother has several food allergies, there are restaurants where she can't eat any meal. Would you welcome a law mandating each and every restaurant to start serving meals she can eat?
labrador 4y ago
My favorite sandwich shop in Menlo Park closed because of these lawsuits Two of the lawsuits against Kwan and the cafe were filed by serial ADA litigants https://padailypost.com/2019/05/01/cafe-closes-after-third-ada-lawsuit/ https://padailypost.com/2019/05/01/cafe-closes-after-third-a...
Spivak 4y ago
I think the issue is that “the disabled don’t need access to everything” ends up with the abled deciding what the disabled deserve to access. How shitty a life having to utter something like, “sorry no, I haven’t tried the new ramen shop, the state legislature decided that restaurants weren’t essential enough to require wheelchair access and the front door is up some stairs.” It in no way excuses the frankly bullshit lawsuits the parent is referencing but in general I think everything should be accessible. Like in all things there needs to be an element of good faith. There’s a world of difference between painted lines being slightly faded and “I genuinely can’t get into your business.”
- parkingrift 4y ago
  >I think the issue is that “the disabled don’t need access to everything” ends up with the abled deciding what the disabled deserve to access. We’re talking about privately owned establishments. No one deserves to be able to go to these places. It’s a privilege to go, not a right. The disabled should have access to any public spaces, but extending that to private spaces is asinine. Sorry no, I haven’t been to the ramen place, the state mandated they add a wheelchair ramp and they couldn’t afford it. Now it’s a Starbucks. Who is actually winning here, again?
  - dongkyun 4y ago
    This is literally the same reasoning segregationists used during the Civil Rights Act lmfao. "Privately owned establishments" use public infrastructure and tax subsidies, why should people with disabilities be disproportionately and discriminatorily excluded from swaths of public life due to no fault of their own.
rat87 4y ago
And when those mcchains go out of business the next business will have a ramp
- josephcsible 4y ago
  I think you have the effects of this backwards. It's predominantly the mom-and-pop restaurants that go out of business, and the "mcchains" that install the ramps.
ROTMetro 4y ago
I remember when the business park we were in had to spray paint the tree branches/roots in the little redwood loop behind us to make it vision impaired accessible. Wasn't much of a break to walk through a vandalized forrest. Weren't they going to pave the sky to sea trail at one point? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyline-to-the-Sea_Trail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyline-to-the-Sea_Trail

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

baggy_trough 4y ago

The disabled litigant is of course bottom feeding scum, but the real fault is with the law itself.

themitigating 4y ago
No, the fault is the person who abuses it. That's a choice. The law wasn't created with abuse in mind and while you could claim it should have been written better That's just a mistake. Only one party here is purposeful in their actions
- xbar 4y ago
  Maybe the law isn't well written.
- redox99 4y ago
  What abuse in mind? I don't know what the law says, but based on what the other comment claims, the law requires ramps? I don't see why demanding that places have ramps as the law requires constitutes "abuse" to you.

themitigating 4y ago

If you're handicapped you don't expect to be able to go hiking. However you do expect to be able to go to restaurants

Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
Why do you expect that?
- TheNorthman 4y ago
  I mean, aside from the obvious principle of reasonable accommodation guaranteed by the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities? Or, perhaps more specifically the guarantee from Article 19, barring segregation from the community at large? Expecting the declarations on human rights to be followed is not unreasonable.
  - Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
    should all resturants also be vegan? Nut free? We don't want to segregate, right? Nobody "deserves" to go to a resturant.
    - TheNorthman 4y ago
      Is being vegan a disability? Regarding nuts, I don't know about the rest of the world but in my country, restaurants are required to disclose allergens in their foods, if asked.
      - tasuki 4y ago
        Disclosing allergens is a different thing though: that's akin to "disclosing" that the restaurant isn't wheelchair accessible. Should all restaurants also be required to serve food for whatever combination of allergies one might have? My mother has several food allergies, there are restaurants where she can't eat any meal. Would you welcome a law mandating each and every restaurant to start serving meals she can eat?

labrador 4y ago

My favorite sandwich shop in Menlo Park closed because of these lawsuits Two of the lawsuits against Kwan and the cafe were filed by serial ADA litigants https://padailypost.com/2019/05/01/cafe-closes-after-third-ada-lawsuit/ https://padailypost.com/2019/05/01/cafe-closes-after-third-a...

Spivak 4y ago

I think the issue is that “the disabled don’t need access to everything” ends up with the abled deciding what the disabled deserve to access. How shitty a life having to utter something like, “sorry no, I haven’t tried the new ramen shop, the state legislature decided that restaurants weren’t essential enough to require wheelchair access and the front door is up some stairs.” It in no way excuses the frankly bullshit lawsuits the parent is referencing but in general I think everything should be accessible. Like in all things there needs to be an element of good faith. There’s a world of difference between painted lines being slightly faded and “I genuinely can’t get into your business.”

parkingrift 4y ago
>I think the issue is that “the disabled don’t need access to everything” ends up with the abled deciding what the disabled deserve to access. We’re talking about privately owned establishments. No one deserves to be able to go to these places. It’s a privilege to go, not a right. The disabled should have access to any public spaces, but extending that to private spaces is asinine. Sorry no, I haven’t been to the ramen place, the state mandated they add a wheelchair ramp and they couldn’t afford it. Now it’s a Starbucks. Who is actually winning here, again?
- dongkyun 4y ago
  This is literally the same reasoning segregationists used during the Civil Rights Act lmfao. "Privately owned establishments" use public infrastructure and tax subsidies, why should people with disabilities be disproportionately and discriminatorily excluded from swaths of public life due to no fault of their own.

rat87 4y ago

And when those mcchains go out of business the next business will have a ramp

josephcsible 4y ago
I think you have the effects of this backwards. It's predominantly the mom-and-pop restaurants that go out of business, and the "mcchains" that install the ramps.

ROTMetro 4y ago

I remember when the business park we were in had to spray paint the tree branches/roots in the little redwood loop behind us to make it vision impaired accessible. Wasn't much of a break to walk through a vandalized forrest. Weren't they going to pave the sky to sea trail at one point? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyline-to-the-Sea_Trail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyline-to-the-Sea_Trail