5 ms·

Ask HN: What should you do with non-technical cofounders who're quite useless

9 points by chunky1994 15y ago

I was hired by two college guys as the tech guy for their startup, and they keep expecting me to deliver even though I have exams, colleges to apply to etc. What's worse, these guys don't do anything, they just keep asking me why I 'haven't updated them on the project' or why 'this feature is taking so long'. What do you suggest I do?

brk 15y ago
What were the terms of your employment agreement? Was is expected you would be working full-time on this? Have you given them any project timelines estimates, like "this feature will take about 30 programming hours to get roughly implemented, and I'm working 10 hours this week on it..."? What they are, or are not, doing is probably not directly related to what their expectations are of you. Maybe they just have no idea how long it takes to get stuff done and you need to give them better guidance.
- chunky1994 15y ago
  Well, there aren't any terms of employment agreement actually. They just said develop this and we'll pay you. Since they're actually my friends I took this on faith. No, it wasn't expected that I would be working full time on this and yet they insist (with daily reminders) that I implement things faster. Actually most estimates I've made tend to be off by around a few hours, but since I give them estimates in days, this isn't much of a problem.
paulhauggis 15y ago
This is what I don't like about non-technical people managing technical projects. They have no concept of how long something takes to create. In this case, they are your bosses. I would just try to explain to them your situation. It might be time to quit or find another job.
- chunky1994 15y ago
  I started working on this to get some hands on experience, so quitting wouldn't really help me much. Unless there are startups out there ready to allow a novice freelance developer on their team.
e1ven 15y ago
Chunky- I suggest you continue to give them status updates on a regular basis, but gradually drift off to be working on your own project. By May or so, you should be ready to find a cofounder (Choose someone with some money, that you trust), and release a your own project, which is very similar (but not legally identical) to their idea. After you get some initial traction, take off, and move to Silicon Valley, but leave your new co-founder behind. Maybe send him off to run the sales division in NY. In SV, meet up with some charismatic bigshot (Preferably someone who had their own company before) to gain some publicity. Use him for intros to VCs. It's OK to party with him a bit. When your Cofounder later comes to SV, dilute his shares to the point of basically kicking him out of the company. Don't be surprised if the bigshot gets busted for drugs at a party at this point. He is Charismatic, after is. At this point, you'll want to be careful- You're about to have some lawsuits.. Your Co-founder will sue you, as will the two college guys you're working for now.. But don't worry, your company is now on the road to success, and soon you'll be on the cover of TIME.
- chunky1994 15y ago
  Hahaha, this is brilliant! :) well there's nothing I'd like to do more than that, but seeing that I don't even have a college degree (and I'm not in NY) that would be really really really hard to accomplish. Yet, I probably will start working on a similar project like you suggested.(Although I have no intention of screwing over two harvard twins by stealing their idea)
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
    - chunky1994 15y ago
      Yes, I did get that, hence my comment.
  - e1ven 15y ago
    If I were to give you real advice, it'd be to keep working on it, if you're enjoying it, or you think you can get it done soonish. They're not going to want to go with a whole new team unless you're very very behind, since they'd have to train them up. But don't expect a payout from these guys. They're likely not to go anywhere, and you're playing "agressively" by taking so long. So.. Do it if you enjoy it.
AznHisoka 15y ago
I suggest you do your job... You were hired to do that, weren't you? It doesn't matter if the 2 guys are slackers, hell they could just sit on a beach all day long. As long as they're paying you, they could do whatever they want.
- chunky1994 15y ago
  They're paying me out of the money that the startup makes. If they keep slacking off, they'll just be cheating me, but I still don't want to quite as this is the only place I can actually get some experience.
  - devs1010 15y ago
    You can gain experience just working on your own small projects, if you aren't making money from something then there's no reason you need to work for someone else, you can gain experience on your own.
polyfractal 15y ago
Cheeky response: hire an outsourced developer to do your job for less than you make, pocket the difference. Everyone wins.
robgough 15y ago
You should watch The Social Network - it's basically a HOWTO guide for your current situation. tl;dw Steal their idea & make billions. (just in case it's needed... no. not a serious suggestion) edit: somehow missed e1ven's post. do that!
sganesh 15y ago
You should manage perceptions. You should give them "preemptive updates" - Tell them everything and anything, before it happens. Here's a sample template :) Things I plan on doing today (Send it the same every day, as early as possible): (i) Homework - Required by school (ii) Reading 'X' chapters of a book, or Reading blog, code etc - Knowledge Acquisition To Help With The Project Or Personal Improvement (iii) Chores - Things that need to get done to live your life (iv) Thinking About The Project - This is how most "Features" get done. (v) Coding - Like 'Planning on adding approximately 100 lines of code'. To be clear, this is a fake measurement that is of no use to any developer, but for non-technical people, this is worth a lot. And just before ending your day.. "FYI - I added 120 lines of code. This makes it 400 lines of code for this feature :)" P.S: "e1ven" idea is much better :)
dholowiski 15y ago
Quit? It doesn't seem like these guys will be good business partners.
- ImprovedSilence 15y ago
  I agree. Focus on school and your own side projects.
- meric 15y ago
  If you're afraid of burning bridges, find someone who is technically capable and would be interested in this project, and let him be your replacement when you quit.
md1515 15y ago
Is the company making any money yet? If not and you are doing this for future earnings, then I would suggest following what e1ven says. As a non-technical founder it is hard for me to advocate that, but that is the free market. If you don't offer something beyond an idea, you don't deserve to do it. Stay legal, of course. If you have signed agreements do not do anything to break them
helen842000 15y ago
Start asking them to deliver on their own project. Just because they aren't technical doesn't mean they can't provide you with evidence of their input. Ask for more detailed specs, Spellchecked and proof read copy, mockups, copyright free images to use. Anything that will that will speed up the process for you and prove their commitment. Ask to see evidence of their attempt at marketing, surveys with potential users giving feedback on proposed features, active twitter accounts networking, competitor analysis. You need to get them to prove they're not useless. That they can contribute even outside of development. If it turns out they ARE useless...you know what to do.

9 points by chunky1994 15y ago

brk 15y ago

What were the terms of your employment agreement? Was is expected you would be working full-time on this? Have you given them any project timelines estimates, like "this feature will take about 30 programming hours to get roughly implemented, and I'm working 10 hours this week on it..."? What they are, or are not, doing is probably not directly related to what their expectations are of you. Maybe they just have no idea how long it takes to get stuff done and you need to give them better guidance.

chunky1994 15y ago
Well, there aren't any terms of employment agreement actually. They just said develop this and we'll pay you. Since they're actually my friends I took this on faith. No, it wasn't expected that I would be working full time on this and yet they insist (with daily reminders) that I implement things faster. Actually most estimates I've made tend to be off by around a few hours, but since I give them estimates in days, this isn't much of a problem.

paulhauggis 15y ago

This is what I don't like about non-technical people managing technical projects. They have no concept of how long something takes to create. In this case, they are your bosses. I would just try to explain to them your situation. It might be time to quit or find another job.

chunky1994 15y ago
I started working on this to get some hands on experience, so quitting wouldn't really help me much. Unless there are startups out there ready to allow a novice freelance developer on their team.

e1ven 15y ago

Chunky- I suggest you continue to give them status updates on a regular basis, but gradually drift off to be working on your own project. By May or so, you should be ready to find a cofounder (Choose someone with some money, that you trust), and release a your own project, which is very similar (but not legally identical) to their idea. After you get some initial traction, take off, and move to Silicon Valley, but leave your new co-founder behind. Maybe send him off to run the sales division in NY. In SV, meet up with some charismatic bigshot (Preferably someone who had their own company before) to gain some publicity. Use him for intros to VCs. It's OK to party with him a bit. When your Cofounder later comes to SV, dilute his shares to the point of basically kicking him out of the company. Don't be surprised if the bigshot gets busted for drugs at a party at this point. He is Charismatic, after is. At this point, you'll want to be careful- You're about to have some lawsuits.. Your Co-founder will sue you, as will the two college guys you're working for now.. But don't worry, your company is now on the road to success, and soon you'll be on the cover of TIME.

chunky1994 15y ago
Hahaha, this is brilliant! :) well there's nothing I'd like to do more than that, but seeing that I don't even have a college degree (and I'm not in NY) that would be really really really hard to accomplish. Yet, I probably will start working on a similar project like you suggested.(Although I have no intention of screwing over two harvard twins by stealing their idea)
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
  - chunky1994 15y ago
    Yes, I did get that, hence my comment.
- e1ven 15y ago
  If I were to give you real advice, it'd be to keep working on it, if you're enjoying it, or you think you can get it done soonish. They're not going to want to go with a whole new team unless you're very very behind, since they'd have to train them up. But don't expect a payout from these guys. They're likely not to go anywhere, and you're playing "agressively" by taking so long. So.. Do it if you enjoy it.

AznHisoka 15y ago

I suggest you do your job... You were hired to do that, weren't you? It doesn't matter if the 2 guys are slackers, hell they could just sit on a beach all day long. As long as they're paying you, they could do whatever they want.

chunky1994 15y ago
They're paying me out of the money that the startup makes. If they keep slacking off, they'll just be cheating me, but I still don't want to quite as this is the only place I can actually get some experience.
- devs1010 15y ago
  You can gain experience just working on your own small projects, if you aren't making money from something then there's no reason you need to work for someone else, you can gain experience on your own.

polyfractal 15y ago

Cheeky response: hire an outsourced developer to do your job for less than you make, pocket the difference. Everyone wins.

robgough 15y ago

You should watch The Social Network - it's basically a HOWTO guide for your current situation. tl;dw Steal their idea & make billions. (just in case it's needed... no. not a serious suggestion) edit: somehow missed e1ven's post. do that!

sganesh 15y ago

You should manage perceptions. You should give them "preemptive updates" - Tell them everything and anything, before it happens. Here's a sample template :) Things I plan on doing today (Send it the same every day, as early as possible): (i) Homework - Required by school (ii) Reading 'X' chapters of a book, or Reading blog, code etc - Knowledge Acquisition To Help With The Project Or Personal Improvement (iii) Chores - Things that need to get done to live your life (iv) Thinking About The Project - This is how most "Features" get done. (v) Coding - Like 'Planning on adding approximately 100 lines of code'. To be clear, this is a fake measurement that is of no use to any developer, but for non-technical people, this is worth a lot. And just before ending your day.. "FYI - I added 120 lines of code. This makes it 400 lines of code for this feature :)" P.S: "e1ven" idea is much better :)

dholowiski 15y ago

Quit? It doesn't seem like these guys will be good business partners.

ImprovedSilence 15y ago
I agree. Focus on school and your own side projects.
meric 15y ago
If you're afraid of burning bridges, find someone who is technically capable and would be interested in this project, and let him be your replacement when you quit.

md1515 15y ago

Is the company making any money yet? If not and you are doing this for future earnings, then I would suggest following what e1ven says. As a non-technical founder it is hard for me to advocate that, but that is the free market. If you don't offer something beyond an idea, you don't deserve to do it. Stay legal, of course. If you have signed agreements do not do anything to break them

helen842000 15y ago

Start asking them to deliver on their own project. Just because they aren't technical doesn't mean they can't provide you with evidence of their input. Ask for more detailed specs, Spellchecked and proof read copy, mockups, copyright free images to use. Anything that will that will speed up the process for you and prove their commitment. Ask to see evidence of their attempt at marketing, surveys with potential users giving feedback on proposed features, active twitter accounts networking, competitor analysis. You need to get them to prove they're not useless. That they can contribute even outside of development. If it turns out they ARE useless...you know what to do.