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That's not the word from the developer lead. >That whole "optimized for macOS" thing is a myth. Heck, we don't even have CPU deep idle support yet and people a

That's not the word from the developer lead. >That whole "optimized for macOS" thing is a myth. Heck, we don't even have CPU deep idle support yet and people are reporting 7-10h of battery runtime on Linux. With software rendering running a composited desktop. No GPU. https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1498923099169132545 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1498923099169132545 Also, from a couple of days ago, they got basic suspend to work. >WiFi S3 sleep works, which means s2idle suspend works! https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582363763617181696 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582363763617181696

nicoburns 4y ago
7-10 hours is good, but that's still around half of what these machines can do on macOS. And it's just common sense that battery life with software rendering won't be as good when hardware acceleration is enabled.
- tbrock 4y ago
  And better than any windows laptop on the market with the same performance profile.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Is it still as fast when 60% of it's CPU time is being utilized to render a Retina desktop?
  - snovv_crash 4y ago
    Ryzen 6800u is comparable in performance and power consumption, on an older process node.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      The 4800u was used in performance comparisons when the M1 dropped. For the record, that was an 18-month-old chip fabbed on outdated, 7nm silicon that was shipping in ~$450 laptops at the time. Brilliant little Linux devices, I've been told.
smoldesu 4y ago
Software rendering simply stinks, doubly so if you're running a fancy composited desktop. Regardless of CPU speed or UI fluidity, your CPU and GPU processes are now fighting for the same cycles, bottlenecking one another in the worst way possible. The M1 has a fairly good GPU, so there's hope that the battery life and overall experience will improve in the future. As of now though, I'd reckon there's dozens of x86 Linux laptops that can outlast the M1 on Linux. Pitting a recent Ryzen laptop versus an Asahi Macbook isn't even a fair fight.
- the8472 4y ago
  I'd hope that an idle desktop redraws ~nothing and so doesn't waste any CPU cycles. And the GPU not being used might even save power. So as long as it's idle it would ideally consume less power, not more.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    If ARM had competitive SIMD performance, then we might be seeing an overall reduction in power usage. The base ARM ISA is excruciatingly bad at vectorized computation though, so eventual GPU support seems like a must-have to me.
    - dougall 4y ago
      In my experience the M1 does have competitive SIMD performance? https://dougallj.wordpress.com/2022/04/01/converting-integers-to-fixed-width-strings-faster-with-neon-simd-on-the-apple-m1/ https://dougallj.wordpress.com/2022/04/01/converting-integer... https://dougallj.wordpress.com/2022/05/22/faster-crc32-on-the-apple-m1/ https://dougallj.wordpress.com/2022/05/22/faster-crc32-on-th... https://lemire.me/blog/2020/12/13/arm-macbook-vs-intel-macbook-a-simd-benchmark/ https://lemire.me/blog/2020/12/13/arm-macbook-vs-intel-macbo... (I later optimised the slower benchmark in that post: https://github.com/simdjson/simdjson/pull/1708 https://github.com/simdjson/simdjson/pull/1708 ) Obviously the GPU will be better, but at one point I compared the M1 CPU to other ARM GPUs (in laptops at that time) and found it had both better memory bandwidth and compute throughput, which is quite funny.
saagarjha 4y ago
"Optimized for macOS" is definitely not a myth, but the reality is far more complicated than people believe. There's parts of the OS that are definitely incredibly optimized for the hardware they run on. Then there's some random app that has an O(n^3) loop in it. Operating systems are complex.

nicoburns 4y ago

7-10 hours is good, but that's still around half of what these machines can do on macOS. And it's just common sense that battery life with software rendering won't be as good when hardware acceleration is enabled.

tbrock 4y ago
And better than any windows laptop on the market with the same performance profile.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Is it still as fast when 60% of it's CPU time is being utilized to render a Retina desktop?
- snovv_crash 4y ago
  Ryzen 6800u is comparable in performance and power consumption, on an older process node.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    The 4800u was used in performance comparisons when the M1 dropped. For the record, that was an 18-month-old chip fabbed on outdated, 7nm silicon that was shipping in ~$450 laptops at the time. Brilliant little Linux devices, I've been told.

smoldesu 4y ago

Software rendering simply stinks, doubly so if you're running a fancy composited desktop. Regardless of CPU speed or UI fluidity, your CPU and GPU processes are now fighting for the same cycles, bottlenecking one another in the worst way possible. The M1 has a fairly good GPU, so there's hope that the battery life and overall experience will improve in the future. As of now though, I'd reckon there's dozens of x86 Linux laptops that can outlast the M1 on Linux. Pitting a recent Ryzen laptop versus an Asahi Macbook isn't even a fair fight.

the8472 4y ago
I'd hope that an idle desktop redraws ~nothing and so doesn't waste any CPU cycles. And the GPU not being used might even save power. So as long as it's idle it would ideally consume less power, not more.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  If ARM had competitive SIMD performance, then we might be seeing an overall reduction in power usage. The base ARM ISA is excruciatingly bad at vectorized computation though, so eventual GPU support seems like a must-have to me.
  - dougall 4y ago
    In my experience the M1 does have competitive SIMD performance? https://dougallj.wordpress.com/2022/04/01/converting-integers-to-fixed-width-strings-faster-with-neon-simd-on-the-apple-m1/ https://dougallj.wordpress.com/2022/04/01/converting-integer... https://dougallj.wordpress.com/2022/05/22/faster-crc32-on-the-apple-m1/ https://dougallj.wordpress.com/2022/05/22/faster-crc32-on-th... https://lemire.me/blog/2020/12/13/arm-macbook-vs-intel-macbook-a-simd-benchmark/ https://lemire.me/blog/2020/12/13/arm-macbook-vs-intel-macbo... (I later optimised the slower benchmark in that post: https://github.com/simdjson/simdjson/pull/1708 https://github.com/simdjson/simdjson/pull/1708 ) Obviously the GPU will be better, but at one point I compared the M1 CPU to other ARM GPUs (in laptops at that time) and found it had both better memory bandwidth and compute throughput, which is quite funny.

saagarjha 4y ago

"Optimized for macOS" is definitely not a myth, but the reality is far more complicated than people believe. There's parts of the OS that are definitely incredibly optimized for the hardware they run on. Then there's some random app that has an O(n^3) loop in it. Operating systems are complex.