7 ms·

But it's also Airbnb themselves. It's well known that negative reviews are scrubbed and even edited, this is something many people including myself have experi

But it's also Airbnb themselves. It's well known that negative reviews are scrubbed and even edited, this is something many people including myself have experienced. Any doubts, spend some time on the Airbnb subreddit, which is run by hosts, and check out both their attitudes and their advice about how to remove bad reviews. Airbnb needs hosts for its revenue. Clients are the product. I used to love Airbnb and used it multiple times per year - since Day 1. Now because of fake positive reviews (where negative aspects of a home, like noise, are censored), combined with crazy fees, I'm also like you going back to hotels. You have to love the fees, which I think are sinking the system. 130 a night for the place, you want to stay there three nights. You're asked to pay 250 in Airbnb fees and 225 in cleaning fees. You should check in after 2 pm and you better check out before 11, and anything out of the ordinary leads to an uncomfortable email exchange sometimes with no reply. It's not cancellable, either. Many people bought properties around the world to specifically Airbnb out. Will the tide finally turn? Is the business model unsustainable?

boringg 4y ago
Hopefully those properties will come back on the market at a reasonable price so that we can offset some of the housing inequity that airbnb is directly responsible for.
- dorchadas 4y ago
  Seriously. I can only hope the tide is turning and these AirBnBs will be back in the hands of the people who actually live in the cities. Sadly corporations will probably eat them up and let, though hopefully as long-term instead of short!
  - berkes 4y ago
    > will be back in the hands of the people who actually live in the cities. There apparently is a real demand to rent such places for short terms like holidays or trips. Banning AirBnB, or AirBnB going down, won't remove that demand.
    - dorchadas 4y ago
      No, but it'll force them to go to places that are actually planned to accommodate them. Tourists are included in city planning, believe it or not, but they're not expected to be taking up the actual residential places of the city. That's why areas are zoned for hotels and there's regulation around them.
      - scarby2 4y ago
        > Tourists are included in city planning The reason AirBnB exists is that tourists are not properly accounted for in city planning and not properly serviced by hotels. There's a huge demand for what AirBnB provides (Serviced and short term accommodation). Hotels are inadequate for longer stays or where you just want the comforts of home, a good middle ground is the "serviced apartment" concept found in some places (entire apartment blocks reserved for short term rentals) however there are times when you want an entire house, not an apartment.
        wcarron 4y ago
        > a good middle ground is the "serviced apartment" concept found in some places (entire apartment blocks reserved for short term rentals) You mean a hotel? Hotels are not inadequate for longer stays. If someone desires the comforts of a home, they can move there and actually rent/buy a home. > The reason AirBnB exists is that tourists are not properly accounted for in city planning and not properly serviced by hotels. This is a werid entitlement. Tourists aren't entitled to overrun and impose a serious negative impact upon a town/city's housing supply because they feel like they 'deserve' to vacation there.
        jamiegreen 4y ago
        >You mean a hotel? Hotels are not inadequate for longer stays. If someone desires the comforts of a home, they can move there and actually rent/buy a home. What about a middle ground. If I go somewhere for 2-4 weeks? For that length of time I kind of want a proper kitchen, which I won't get in a hotel, but obviously it is not long enough to actually rent/buy a home.
lifeformed 4y ago
> 225 in cleaning fees Ah yes, and then you read in the notes that you also have to do the laundry and wash the dishes.
- slivanes 4y ago
  Doing the dishes seems reasonable, I behave as a guest in an Airbnb.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    If there's a $150 cleaning fee? Not really. Sure, I'll throw a few dishes in a dishwasher and run it. But it's not like I'm staying in a friend's condo for free.
  - thepasswordis 4y ago
    Do you charge guests in your home $100/night to stay there?
    - slivanes 4y ago
      I wonder if this is a chicken/egg thing? Host are charging this silly fee because guests were not cleaning up after themselves? Like at a cafe, it's socially accepted that you put away (bus) your finished utensils.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
        More than likely but that's not the point. If I stay at a hotel and I don't clean up after myself, I won't get charged a fee.
      - lostlogin 4y ago
        Just making sure I’m understanding you, at cafes where you live you clear your own dishes? I haven’t encountered this before.
        4y ago
Ayesh 4y ago
Yeah, I almost never consider an Airbnb nowadays for these extra costs. Hotels do this too (with city tax for example), but that is just a few extra dollars a night, and not almost as high as the cost per night. I think the original spirit of someone renting out extra space they have is long gone. It's either a big company renting out what could have been rental units in the first place, or someone renting their place but you have to almost beg them to be flexible with timing, amenities, etc. I would feel much more comfortable complaining to a hotel if the beds are dirty, as opposed to an Airbnb host.
- makestuff 4y ago
  Well and I don't have to do chores at a hotel. AirBnB says pay us $200 for a cleaning fee but make sure to take the sheets off the bed, cut the grass, and paint the walls before you leave.
  - throwayyy479087 4y ago
    I got a negative review on a property that charged a $250 cleaning fee for washing the dishes but not putting them away
tediousdemise 4y ago
I bet someone on Hacker News can set up a website that mirrors AirBnB reviews as they are posted. This would prevent revisionism. They can slap vacation ads on it and now they have a stable source of income!
- mancerayder 4y ago
  That's an excellent idea. I'd even consider paying a subscription for it (assuming I used Airbnb again, which I might with this service). Could Airbnb challenge it legally though?
  - lobocinza 4y ago
    They will allege that reviews on the platform are Airbnb's copyright.
dylan604 4y ago
>It's well known that negative reviews are scrubbed and even edited If this is true, then I see no other blame than Airbnb themselves. If you make a platform allowing reviews in such a way that the "seller" can edit the reviews "users" make, then that's never going to become anything other than scammy. Even allowing a review to be scrubbed/removed by the seller is bad. There should be a mechanism to work with the platform to handle fake/false reviews, but the seller should never be able to do that on their own.
- iudqnolq 4y ago
  They have a long list of things you can't complain about. One example is things that the seller can't change, like a loud train nearby. At least when I last used it if a single sentence in your review violated one of those policies your whole review was deleted and you couldn't submit a new one. Interestingly their dispute process is very buyer-friendly, though. When a seller demands money in compensation for damage they often lose. I believe this is because Airbnb is on the hook if they can't collect from the buyer.
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
While I broadly agree with what you've written here, I think that: > Airbnb needs hosts for its revenue. Clients are the product. is not a useful way to think about this. AirBnb lives in a sort of weird parasitic-symbiotic relationship with both its hosts and the "guests". They are not trying to sell "guests" to anyone (they may do data collection and sale, but I think this not the cornerstone of their business model): what they rely on is an abundant supply of matching properties (not hosts!) and "guests". The hosts as people are irrelevant. If they lose "guests", less revenue. If they lose properties/listings, less revenue. > Is the business model unsustainable? The original AirBnb model (people renting spare rooms in their own homes, or maybe a casita on their property) was sustainable, but growth-limited. I don't know about the current one.
datavirtue 4y ago
It's a scam. Plain and simple. VRBO is worse.
- mancerayder 4y ago
  Why is VRBO worse?

boringg 4y ago

Hopefully those properties will come back on the market at a reasonable price so that we can offset some of the housing inequity that airbnb is directly responsible for.

dorchadas 4y ago
Seriously. I can only hope the tide is turning and these AirBnBs will be back in the hands of the people who actually live in the cities. Sadly corporations will probably eat them up and let, though hopefully as long-term instead of short!
- berkes 4y ago
  > will be back in the hands of the people who actually live in the cities. There apparently is a real demand to rent such places for short terms like holidays or trips. Banning AirBnB, or AirBnB going down, won't remove that demand.
  - dorchadas 4y ago
    No, but it'll force them to go to places that are actually planned to accommodate them. Tourists are included in city planning, believe it or not, but they're not expected to be taking up the actual residential places of the city. That's why areas are zoned for hotels and there's regulation around them.
    - scarby2 4y ago
      > Tourists are included in city planning The reason AirBnB exists is that tourists are not properly accounted for in city planning and not properly serviced by hotels. There's a huge demand for what AirBnB provides (Serviced and short term accommodation). Hotels are inadequate for longer stays or where you just want the comforts of home, a good middle ground is the "serviced apartment" concept found in some places (entire apartment blocks reserved for short term rentals) however there are times when you want an entire house, not an apartment.
      - wcarron 4y ago
        > a good middle ground is the "serviced apartment" concept found in some places (entire apartment blocks reserved for short term rentals) You mean a hotel? Hotels are not inadequate for longer stays. If someone desires the comforts of a home, they can move there and actually rent/buy a home. > The reason AirBnB exists is that tourists are not properly accounted for in city planning and not properly serviced by hotels. This is a werid entitlement. Tourists aren't entitled to overrun and impose a serious negative impact upon a town/city's housing supply because they feel like they 'deserve' to vacation there.
        jamiegreen 4y ago
        >You mean a hotel? Hotels are not inadequate for longer stays. If someone desires the comforts of a home, they can move there and actually rent/buy a home. What about a middle ground. If I go somewhere for 2-4 weeks? For that length of time I kind of want a proper kitchen, which I won't get in a hotel, but obviously it is not long enough to actually rent/buy a home.

lifeformed 4y ago

> 225 in cleaning fees Ah yes, and then you read in the notes that you also have to do the laundry and wash the dishes.

slivanes 4y ago
Doing the dishes seems reasonable, I behave as a guest in an Airbnb.
- ghaff 4y ago
  If there's a $150 cleaning fee? Not really. Sure, I'll throw a few dishes in a dishwasher and run it. But it's not like I'm staying in a friend's condo for free.
- thepasswordis 4y ago
  Do you charge guests in your home $100/night to stay there?
  - slivanes 4y ago
    I wonder if this is a chicken/egg thing? Host are charging this silly fee because guests were not cleaning up after themselves? Like at a cafe, it's socially accepted that you put away (bus) your finished utensils.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
      More than likely but that's not the point. If I stay at a hotel and I don't clean up after myself, I won't get charged a fee.
    - lostlogin 4y ago
      Just making sure I’m understanding you, at cafes where you live you clear your own dishes? I haven’t encountered this before.
      - 4y ago

Ayesh 4y ago

Yeah, I almost never consider an Airbnb nowadays for these extra costs. Hotels do this too (with city tax for example), but that is just a few extra dollars a night, and not almost as high as the cost per night. I think the original spirit of someone renting out extra space they have is long gone. It's either a big company renting out what could have been rental units in the first place, or someone renting their place but you have to almost beg them to be flexible with timing, amenities, etc. I would feel much more comfortable complaining to a hotel if the beds are dirty, as opposed to an Airbnb host.

makestuff 4y ago
Well and I don't have to do chores at a hotel. AirBnB says pay us $200 for a cleaning fee but make sure to take the sheets off the bed, cut the grass, and paint the walls before you leave.
- throwayyy479087 4y ago
  I got a negative review on a property that charged a $250 cleaning fee for washing the dishes but not putting them away

tediousdemise 4y ago

I bet someone on Hacker News can set up a website that mirrors AirBnB reviews as they are posted. This would prevent revisionism. They can slap vacation ads on it and now they have a stable source of income!

mancerayder 4y ago
That's an excellent idea. I'd even consider paying a subscription for it (assuming I used Airbnb again, which I might with this service). Could Airbnb challenge it legally though?
- lobocinza 4y ago
  They will allege that reviews on the platform are Airbnb's copyright.

dylan604 4y ago

>It's well known that negative reviews are scrubbed and even edited If this is true, then I see no other blame than Airbnb themselves. If you make a platform allowing reviews in such a way that the "seller" can edit the reviews "users" make, then that's never going to become anything other than scammy. Even allowing a review to be scrubbed/removed by the seller is bad. There should be a mechanism to work with the platform to handle fake/false reviews, but the seller should never be able to do that on their own.

iudqnolq 4y ago
They have a long list of things you can't complain about. One example is things that the seller can't change, like a loud train nearby. At least when I last used it if a single sentence in your review violated one of those policies your whole review was deleted and you couldn't submit a new one. Interestingly their dispute process is very buyer-friendly, though. When a seller demands money in compensation for damage they often lose. I believe this is because Airbnb is on the hook if they can't collect from the buyer.

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

While I broadly agree with what you've written here, I think that: > Airbnb needs hosts for its revenue. Clients are the product. is not a useful way to think about this. AirBnb lives in a sort of weird parasitic-symbiotic relationship with both its hosts and the "guests". They are not trying to sell "guests" to anyone (they may do data collection and sale, but I think this not the cornerstone of their business model): what they rely on is an abundant supply of matching properties (not hosts!) and "guests". The hosts as people are irrelevant. If they lose "guests", less revenue. If they lose properties/listings, less revenue. > Is the business model unsustainable? The original AirBnb model (people renting spare rooms in their own homes, or maybe a casita on their property) was sustainable, but growth-limited. I don't know about the current one.

datavirtue 4y ago

It's a scam. Plain and simple. VRBO is worse.

mancerayder 4y ago
Why is VRBO worse?