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but what a list of failures it is... caused millions of deaths directly and indirectly, destabilized whole parts of the world for centuries, and NO obvious succ

but what a list of failures it is... caused millions of deaths directly and indirectly, destabilized whole parts of the world for centuries, and NO obvious success to boast about and justify all that mayhem and making sworn enemies for life instead of very good friends who share all major values with US (ie whole Iran affair is CIA and MI6 clusterfuck par excellence). I don't credit CIA with any major influence on Soviet Union collapse for example, although I grok very well why they would like to promote that emotion and feel the same. It was just a forceful amalgam of nations, not unlike Yugoslavia but much worse, without any real merging happening over decades, and once distinct parts realized the grip is not anymore so strong they went their own ways (given what people like Stalin did to many ethnicities in USSR they are hardly to blame... I mean who wants to be willingly with Russians in one state)

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
But they were never alone. Every other ex-empire or wannabe-empire has played the same game. Just look at irans agents popping up wherever there is war in the middle east, so just because its the biggest figure on the board, does not mean its the only one to be called out. And regarding south american democracies.. well, they almost all inherited a racist, pyramid scheme of society from there colonial times. Which almost always even when democracy prevailed failed to reform, just exchange figure heads and the gravy train runs ever onward, with a different conductor. A different group of families takes over and rules the distrought masses. True democracies are in the hearts and minds of the people and are really tough to extuinguish, which putin just currently finds out the hard way. Its more then voting, the state becomes the property of every citizen, in there mind and stays that way even when temporary toppled. Ever wondered, why some countries are such a rodeo ride for dictators and others aint? Its this. The "we ought to be in control of our destiny, we were once and we will be again, cause the big men will die one day". Everything before that is democracy waiting to become real, some of them were the democracy was glued on from above even reverted with "broad public support" back to dictatorships (Turkey).
foverzar 4y ago
> given what people like Stalin did to many ethnicities in USSR they are hardly to blame... I mean who wants to be willingly with Russians in one state Stalin was a Georgian. His next successors were Ukrainians. I don't quite remember the latest ones, but it doesn't seem too far from the truth to say that the only Russians (as in ethnic, not "Russian" == "Soviet") among the highest leadership of the SU were just Lenin, Gorbachev and maybe someone else super obscure. So yeah, "Russians".

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago

But they were never alone. Every other ex-empire or wannabe-empire has played the same game. Just look at irans agents popping up wherever there is war in the middle east, so just because its the biggest figure on the board, does not mean its the only one to be called out. And regarding south american democracies.. well, they almost all inherited a racist, pyramid scheme of society from there colonial times. Which almost always even when democracy prevailed failed to reform, just exchange figure heads and the gravy train runs ever onward, with a different conductor. A different group of families takes over and rules the distrought masses. True democracies are in the hearts and minds of the people and are really tough to extuinguish, which putin just currently finds out the hard way. Its more then voting, the state becomes the property of every citizen, in there mind and stays that way even when temporary toppled. Ever wondered, why some countries are such a rodeo ride for dictators and others aint? Its this. The "we ought to be in control of our destiny, we were once and we will be again, cause the big men will die one day". Everything before that is democracy waiting to become real, some of them were the democracy was glued on from above even reverted with "broad public support" back to dictatorships (Turkey).

foverzar 4y ago

> given what people like Stalin did to many ethnicities in USSR they are hardly to blame... I mean who wants to be willingly with Russians in one state Stalin was a Georgian. His next successors were Ukrainians. I don't quite remember the latest ones, but it doesn't seem too far from the truth to say that the only Russians (as in ethnic, not "Russian" == "Soviet") among the highest leadership of the SU were just Lenin, Gorbachev and maybe someone else super obscure. So yeah, "Russians".