5 ms·

Prosecutor's office has a large role here. No reason for cops to investigate crimes that won't be tried.

by icelancer 4y ago

x86x87 4y ago
That's true. But cops also do not get to decide what they investigate based on their own beliefs and biases.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- thatguy0900 4y ago
  Cops are people. How well would you try to do your job after a few months of seeing your boss purposefully undo whatever work you did at the end of every day. How long would you keep actually coding if your boss just deleted all of your code every shift with no acknowledgment.
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    If my code was mostly harassing and extorting minorities and the the poor then I'd be glad my boss was deleting it and asking me to stop writing more of it. What kind of sociopath would get job satisfaction from felony marijuana busts or harassing queer people trying to have a drink at a bar when you could be going after bigger fish? Maybe the effective Altruism folk can do a law enforcement spin-off to grade the impact of different enforcement strategies in a way that more people would understand.
    - thatguy0900 4y ago
      So stopping bike thefts is harrasing minorities now, or are you on a tangent Noone was talking about? The conversation was about why cops in these areas don't bother investigating crimes and mugging, I would hope you don't think enforcing those laws is racist. If it is, I guess we should just be mad max or something. I agree cops in this country need serious reform, but that's not what this discussion is about.
      - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
        As a cyclist myself, one of the reasons I don't support laws about cycle helmets is that police regularly use them (as they do many other laws) to harass people on the basis of race, wealth or other biases via inconsistent enforcement. And that's a law, that in theory, I might be convinced had some merit. Not some War on Drugs BS. How can you exist in the year 2022, have strong opinions on law and order on the internet and feel deep sympathy with police officers forced to do a thankless task as public servants and yet be blissfully unaware of this entire concept?
        thatguy0900 4y ago
        I feel like we're not reading the same thread here. Cops going after minorities is a bad thing. But handcuffing the cops so badly that they have no interest in going after organized serial theft rings because they know that no charges will stick is just as much of a problem in the other direction. Unless you think it's fine to live in a place with 0 personal property protection there's obviously a middle ground that should be met here. But whatever, I don't live there, and would move if my local police got that disfunctional, so I'm happy for the people who enjoy living there. May your bikes stay in your possession for at least a year or two, I guess.
        ZeroGravitas 4y ago
        Something I didn't spell out, which may explain some of your confusion, there is such a thing as "drug related theft crimes", these are crimes committed by drug addicts to feed their habit. They have a distinct pattern, and most of the crimes mentioned in this thread fit that pattern. So, if you try to be "tough on crime" by locking up people with addictions rather than helping them break their addiction and/or even just in some scenarios giving them drugs for free, then you are wasting both lives and money. https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/DRRC.PDF https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/DRRC.PDF > Another dimension of drug-related crime is whether the offense is committed to obtain money (or goods to sell to get money) to support drug use. According to BJS national surveys, the most comprehensive information available, an estimated 17% of 1991 State prison inmates and 13% of convicted jail inmates in 1989 reported committing their offenses to get money to buy drugs (table␣3). Offenders convicted of robbery, burglary, and larceny/theft were most likely to commit their offense to obtain money to buy drugs. Offenders convicted of sexual assault and homicide were among the offenders least likely to commit the offense to sustain their drug habit. I'm suggesting that we should listen to experts, and get the former group medical help, which frees up police time and resources to go after the second group of murderers and rapists, which helps the idea appeal to the tough on crime types even if it has the drawbacks of being more humane, more effective and cheaper as well as actually reducing crime. But the War on Drugs was never really about the drugs in the first place, so it's not like this was some innocent mistake, it's a problem that got created and is now exploited to push more of the same bad policies.
    - coding123 4y ago
      Cops have the unfortunate position of having to police where the crime is. We have the means to just place a button on a screen. The hackers trying to get in and steal is of no consequence to a programmer. If in some wierdo universe where programmers had to stop hackers by busting down their door in the middle of the night to stop a hack, maybe programmers would be facing the same scrutiny. Public: You're going after too many minorities!!! You: I'm just trying to stop the hackers!!!! Public: Defund the programmers! You: Look we stopped 40 white hackers last month! We'll stop going after the others, we promise. (then you just stop doing anything)
- rhino369 4y ago
  But they do get to decide what they investigate based on the DA's polices. It's a waste of everyone's time to investigate crimes that won't be charged regardless of evidence. The city affirmatively decided to decriminalize petty crime. Why would you blame the cops for that.
  - x86x87 4y ago
    Imho this is about priorities not deciding to not enforce the law. If the cops have nothing to do and a law is broken they should invetigate. They don't get to sit on their buts complaining about the da
- giantg2 4y ago
  "But cops also do not get to decide what they investigate based on their own beliefs and biases." Actually they do. It's called law enforcement discretion. They could watch you get murdered and have no legal responsibility to help you (they would likely be fired, but that's about it).
  - x86x87 4y ago
    Nah. If you get to pick and choose you are no longer law enforcement. I get prioritization and I get that there are nuances and circumstances but if I break the law and nothing happens and another person breaks the law and they get in trouble, in the same setting, at the same time it's bullshit. Also, cops are not paid to make their own rules or decide which laws are good or bad. We have this entire branch that is responsible for creating/updating/deleting laws.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      What you're describing is how it should work. I'm just telling it how it is.
pclmulqdq 4y ago
This is really up to the prosecutors, not the cops. They tell the cops "we are not charging people for doing X," so the cops don't arrest anyone for X. At least in NYC and SF, there are written statements from the DA's office to this effect.
- kalkin 4y ago
  Can you provide a link to these statements? How old are they? FWIW I don't live in SF but I've had a couple of car break-ins and I don't even remember if I reported them; it was a formality for insurance purposes if so and I never expected nor saw evidence of any police follow up. Are there cities where that's different?
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    NYC: > “Bragg said the office will stop prosecuting people for theft of services, trespassing (unless it accompanies a stalking charge), aggravated unlicensed operation, routine traffic violations not accompanied by felony charges, obstructing governmental administration, resisting arrest, and prostitution.“ https://gothamist.com/news/manhattan-da-bragg-tells-staff-stop-prosecuting-certain-offenses https://gothamist.com/news/manhattan-da-bragg-tells-staff-st... The Manhattan DA subsequently claimed to roll back the policy, but they are still not interested in prosecuting. I travel to NYC on business regularly, and I’ve seen 6/6 times in the last 8 months people at various stations openly evading Subway fares. In one case, a dude was holding a gate open and yelling at people to come through and not bother paying - with 2 NYPD sitting there talking about 10 feet away. In my small upstate city, they’ll only even pretend to investigate a burglary. We have issues with people partying (drinking, smoking weed, having sex, eating and dumping trash in the street) in cars in nice neighborhoods. We have muggings, car thefts, robberies, etc like never before. The cops shrug, as their operating orders prevent them from doing anything. The “progressive” governance model is to suck up to activists to get the campaign cash. Activists want the cops to stand down to street crime. Ultimately the people who live on the wrong side of the tracks suffer. It’s gross.
    - atyppo 4y ago

Prosecutor's office has a large role here. No reason for cops to investigate crimes that won't be tried.

x86x87 4y ago

That's true. But cops also do not get to decide what they investigate based on their own beliefs and biases.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
thatguy0900 4y ago
Cops are people. How well would you try to do your job after a few months of seeing your boss purposefully undo whatever work you did at the end of every day. How long would you keep actually coding if your boss just deleted all of your code every shift with no acknowledgment.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  If my code was mostly harassing and extorting minorities and the the poor then I'd be glad my boss was deleting it and asking me to stop writing more of it. What kind of sociopath would get job satisfaction from felony marijuana busts or harassing queer people trying to have a drink at a bar when you could be going after bigger fish? Maybe the effective Altruism folk can do a law enforcement spin-off to grade the impact of different enforcement strategies in a way that more people would understand.
  - thatguy0900 4y ago
    So stopping bike thefts is harrasing minorities now, or are you on a tangent Noone was talking about? The conversation was about why cops in these areas don't bother investigating crimes and mugging, I would hope you don't think enforcing those laws is racist. If it is, I guess we should just be mad max or something. I agree cops in this country need serious reform, but that's not what this discussion is about.
    - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
      As a cyclist myself, one of the reasons I don't support laws about cycle helmets is that police regularly use them (as they do many other laws) to harass people on the basis of race, wealth or other biases via inconsistent enforcement. And that's a law, that in theory, I might be convinced had some merit. Not some War on Drugs BS. How can you exist in the year 2022, have strong opinions on law and order on the internet and feel deep sympathy with police officers forced to do a thankless task as public servants and yet be blissfully unaware of this entire concept?
      - thatguy0900 4y ago
        I feel like we're not reading the same thread here. Cops going after minorities is a bad thing. But handcuffing the cops so badly that they have no interest in going after organized serial theft rings because they know that no charges will stick is just as much of a problem in the other direction. Unless you think it's fine to live in a place with 0 personal property protection there's obviously a middle ground that should be met here. But whatever, I don't live there, and would move if my local police got that disfunctional, so I'm happy for the people who enjoy living there. May your bikes stay in your possession for at least a year or two, I guess.
        ZeroGravitas 4y ago
        Something I didn't spell out, which may explain some of your confusion, there is such a thing as "drug related theft crimes", these are crimes committed by drug addicts to feed their habit. They have a distinct pattern, and most of the crimes mentioned in this thread fit that pattern. So, if you try to be "tough on crime" by locking up people with addictions rather than helping them break their addiction and/or even just in some scenarios giving them drugs for free, then you are wasting both lives and money. https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/DRRC.PDF https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/DRRC.PDF > Another dimension of drug-related crime is whether the offense is committed to obtain money (or goods to sell to get money) to support drug use. According to BJS national surveys, the most comprehensive information available, an estimated 17% of 1991 State prison inmates and 13% of convicted jail inmates in 1989 reported committing their offenses to get money to buy drugs (table␣3). Offenders convicted of robbery, burglary, and larceny/theft were most likely to commit their offense to obtain money to buy drugs. Offenders convicted of sexual assault and homicide were among the offenders least likely to commit the offense to sustain their drug habit. I'm suggesting that we should listen to experts, and get the former group medical help, which frees up police time and resources to go after the second group of murderers and rapists, which helps the idea appeal to the tough on crime types even if it has the drawbacks of being more humane, more effective and cheaper as well as actually reducing crime. But the War on Drugs was never really about the drugs in the first place, so it's not like this was some innocent mistake, it's a problem that got created and is now exploited to push more of the same bad policies.
  - coding123 4y ago
    Cops have the unfortunate position of having to police where the crime is. We have the means to just place a button on a screen. The hackers trying to get in and steal is of no consequence to a programmer. If in some wierdo universe where programmers had to stop hackers by busting down their door in the middle of the night to stop a hack, maybe programmers would be facing the same scrutiny. Public: You're going after too many minorities!!! You: I'm just trying to stop the hackers!!!! Public: Defund the programmers! You: Look we stopped 40 white hackers last month! We'll stop going after the others, we promise. (then you just stop doing anything)
rhino369 4y ago
But they do get to decide what they investigate based on the DA's polices. It's a waste of everyone's time to investigate crimes that won't be charged regardless of evidence. The city affirmatively decided to decriminalize petty crime. Why would you blame the cops for that.
- x86x87 4y ago
  Imho this is about priorities not deciding to not enforce the law. If the cops have nothing to do and a law is broken they should invetigate. They don't get to sit on their buts complaining about the da
giantg2 4y ago
"But cops also do not get to decide what they investigate based on their own beliefs and biases." Actually they do. It's called law enforcement discretion. They could watch you get murdered and have no legal responsibility to help you (they would likely be fired, but that's about it).
- x86x87 4y ago
  Nah. If you get to pick and choose you are no longer law enforcement. I get prioritization and I get that there are nuances and circumstances but if I break the law and nothing happens and another person breaks the law and they get in trouble, in the same setting, at the same time it's bullshit. Also, cops are not paid to make their own rules or decide which laws are good or bad. We have this entire branch that is responsible for creating/updating/deleting laws.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    What you're describing is how it should work. I'm just telling it how it is.

pclmulqdq 4y ago

This is really up to the prosecutors, not the cops. They tell the cops "we are not charging people for doing X," so the cops don't arrest anyone for X. At least in NYC and SF, there are written statements from the DA's office to this effect.

kalkin 4y ago
Can you provide a link to these statements? How old are they? FWIW I don't live in SF but I've had a couple of car break-ins and I don't even remember if I reported them; it was a formality for insurance purposes if so and I never expected nor saw evidence of any police follow up. Are there cities where that's different?
- Spooky23 4y ago
  NYC: > “Bragg said the office will stop prosecuting people for theft of services, trespassing (unless it accompanies a stalking charge), aggravated unlicensed operation, routine traffic violations not accompanied by felony charges, obstructing governmental administration, resisting arrest, and prostitution.“ https://gothamist.com/news/manhattan-da-bragg-tells-staff-stop-prosecuting-certain-offenses https://gothamist.com/news/manhattan-da-bragg-tells-staff-st... The Manhattan DA subsequently claimed to roll back the policy, but they are still not interested in prosecuting. I travel to NYC on business regularly, and I’ve seen 6/6 times in the last 8 months people at various stations openly evading Subway fares. In one case, a dude was holding a gate open and yelling at people to come through and not bother paying - with 2 NYPD sitting there talking about 10 feet away. In my small upstate city, they’ll only even pretend to investigate a burglary. We have issues with people partying (drinking, smoking weed, having sex, eating and dumping trash in the street) in cars in nice neighborhoods. We have muggings, car thefts, robberies, etc like never before. The cops shrug, as their operating orders prevent them from doing anything. The “progressive” governance model is to suck up to activists to get the campaign cash. Activists want the cops to stand down to street crime. Ultimately the people who live on the wrong side of the tracks suffer. It’s gross.
  - atyppo 4y ago