4 ms·

SF is funny. If you complain about the crime, lots of long-time residents are loath to admit crime has gone up. "It's been like this since I can remember." "

by mc32 4y ago

SF is funny. If you complain about the crime, lots of long-time residents are loath to admit crime has gone up. "It's been like this since I can remember." "Born and raised fifth generation SFer, no, it's always been like this." Ideology gets the best of people and they don't want to believe. Sure, there have been nadirs before, the 80's after all industry left and only some financial services were left downtown --there were vagrants and muggings but for the most part, if you kept away from the bad neighborhoods, you were unaffected. Now, theft is rampant and unabated. It will take years to recover from "Defund the Police" and No-bail, charge drooping DAs. It takes time to recruit Police and good Prosecutors.

jacobolus 4y ago
The police are no more responsive (if anything, less) after the progressive DA was recalled. You can’t blame the DA or the voters for this one.
- mc32 4y ago
  The situation is not unlike steering a barge. It takes time, lots of time for your actions to manifest (and of course you can overcorrect, or undercorrect as you don't see immediate effect).
  - inferiorhuman 4y ago
    Jenkins wasted no time disbanding the group within the DA's office that was responsible for investigating and prosecuting police misconduct. The barge ain't that big. https://missionlocal.org/2022/08/jenkins-removed-prosecutor-police-misconduct-homicide-trial/ https://missionlocal.org/2022/08/jenkins-removed-prosecutor-... In the latest reorganizational move from appointed incumbent District Attorney Brooke Jenkins, the attorney prosecuting former police officer Christopher Samayoa for the shooting death of unarmed civilian Keita O’Neil will be removed from the case. The announcement came in the form of an Aug. 12 all-staff memo from Jenkins, obtained by Mission Local. Assistant District Attorney James Conger was the last remaining prosecutor hired by ousted DA Chesa Boudin in the Independent Investigations Bureau of the DA’s office. That unit investigates police shootings and most police misconduct cases that may warrant criminal prosecution.
- kotlin2 4y ago
  Definitely can blame DAs for not brining charges. The rule of law is literally the only deterrence to anti-social behavior.
  - dghlsakjg 4y ago
    Crime has increased under the new DA… Seems like the rule of law isn’t much of a deterrence in this case
    - kotlin2 4y ago
      Changing DAs is not like deploying a software service. It takes time for changes to propagate.
    - qclibre22 4y ago
      Crime increased ... or crime reports increased. Perhaps people are now reporting crime because the police and DA will actually do something.
    - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
      When was the new DA inaugurated?
- tomcam 4y ago
  Do you feel that police are fully supported by the citizenry and DA to enforce existing laws?
mbgerring 4y ago
The Mayor of San Francisco appointed a tough-on-crime prosecutor who has spoken in public in favor of reviving failed policies like the war on drugs, purged employees hired by her progressive predecessor, and canceled investigations into police misconduct. You already have the most reactionary, cuff-em-and-stuff-em prosecutor you’re likely to get in San Francisco. So if crime is still a problem, you’re going to have to come up with a new excuse.
- mbgerring 4y ago
  Also, SFPD’s budget was not cut in the wake of protests against police violence. There was no defunding of police in San Francisco. You can’t blame their inaction on policies that were not implemented here.
  - egberts1 4y ago
    Ummm, SF voters voted to make their police force "SMALLER"! https://www.vox.com/2020/11/4/21537593/san-francisco-proposition-e-police-staffing-results https://www.vox.com/2020/11/4/21537593/san-francisco-proposi...
    - mbgerring 4y ago
      No, we voted to give the city the authority to reduce the size of the police force. They haven’t actually used that authority. Nor have they reduce the police budget.
      - egberts1 4y ago
        You sure? https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/2021-02/SFPDStaffingStudyReport20210304.pdf https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/2021-...
    - camdat 4y ago
      Did you even read the article? They weren't meeting these numbers for a long time. >The proposition also requires San Francisco to end a requirement that there be a specified number of full-duty sworn police officers assigned to neighborhood policing and patrol — a number law enforcement officials say has never been met due to resource constraints.
xbar 4y ago
Does the city have any will to change?
cavisne 4y ago
At this point it's basically the monty python "its just a flesh wound" scene. Anyone who has visited SF knows exactly whats going on. Anyone who lives in SF also knows exactly whats going on. They'll just desperately point to some statistic from a tiny town they've never been to that actually measures and enforces the law. Anything to justify continuing to vote for whatever the media tells them to vote for next.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  It's not the media or the this or the that -- it's the lack of competition. In ideas and options. Groupthink of any ilk leads to death.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
camdat 4y ago
Can you provide any... yaknow... evidence that crime is going up on average? Just a quick Google implies that this is a complete fabrication https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/San-Francisco-crime-Chesa-Boudin-London-Breed-16751930.php https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/San-Francisco-crime-Che... https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim... https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/san-francisco-crime-rates-17487348.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/san-francisco-crime-r... >Ideology gets the best of people and they don't want to believe. The irony of saying this with no data to back up your claim, and the data that exists showing the exact opposite of your claim, is truly palpable
- Brendinooo 4y ago
  I’m not exactly invested in a side here, but doesn’t the first article concede that people aren’t reporting larceny crimes because the police aren’t doing anything about it?
- CPLX 4y ago
  The article you’re commenting on is evidence and data. Are you aware that you’re countering data gathered by a long-standing reputable newspaper with data gathered by the police department? Do you think there’s some other way of measuring theft besides people saying “I am the victim of a theft”?
  - camdat 4y ago
    I don't see how it's useful evidence when there's no time series. What if more people were victims of crime in the past and this number has improved?
- mc32 4y ago
  https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/crime https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/crime
  - camdat 4y ago
mbgerring 4y ago
> It will take years to recover from "Defund the Police" There has not been any reduction of the SF police budget in this century. The Mayor made a speech in 2020 suggesting that some funds would be redirected from police budgets into some social programs, but this did not represent any actual reduction in police funding. If you are under the impression that SF was in any way affected by “defunding the police,” you are mistaken, because that didn’t happen.
anigbrowl 4y ago
Sure, there have been nadirs before, the 80's after all industry left and only some financial services were left downtown --there were vagrants and muggings but for the most part, if you kept away from the bad neighborhoods, you were unaffected. When I first came to SF the city was int he grip of a crack epidemic and. I've seen people get shot in the face broad daylight and been in the middle of a driveby. The city is going through an uptick in crime at the moment but its mainly property crime. I don't feel significantly less safe, though that's partly because I have a lot of experience with unsafe situations. A large part of this is simply driven by poverty and prices. Policymakers, business owners, and pundits naturally want a city full of high-earning go-getters whose money will increase the general level of prosperity, fair enough. But there's some sort of naive belief that people at the bottom end of the scale magically teleport themselves away to other labor/residential markets where they'll be more competitive, because economics class made it look just that simple.
braingenious 4y ago
> Now, theft is rampant and unabated. It will take years to recover from "Defund the Police" and No-bail, charge drooping DAs. I agree that ideology gets the best of people. For example there is a baffling group of people set on blaming all current and future crime on a previous DA and absolving the current DA, mayor and SFPD leadership of _any_ responsibility for what goes on in the city. It doesn’t make a lick of sense to me rationally, but I understand the appeal of having a singular boogeyman to blame everything on, kind of like Evangelicals and their fixation on Satan.
daniel-cussen 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
duxup 4y ago
> It will take years to recover from "Defund the Police" Did that actually happen though? The initiative failed when it came to a vote in Minneapolis, crime was up already anyway, even without such initiatives.

by mc32 4y ago

jacobolus 4y ago

The police are no more responsive (if anything, less) after the progressive DA was recalled. You can’t blame the DA or the voters for this one.

mc32 4y ago
The situation is not unlike steering a barge. It takes time, lots of time for your actions to manifest (and of course you can overcorrect, or undercorrect as you don't see immediate effect).
- inferiorhuman 4y ago
  Jenkins wasted no time disbanding the group within the DA's office that was responsible for investigating and prosecuting police misconduct. The barge ain't that big. https://missionlocal.org/2022/08/jenkins-removed-prosecutor-police-misconduct-homicide-trial/ https://missionlocal.org/2022/08/jenkins-removed-prosecutor-... In the latest reorganizational move from appointed incumbent District Attorney Brooke Jenkins, the attorney prosecuting former police officer Christopher Samayoa for the shooting death of unarmed civilian Keita O’Neil will be removed from the case. The announcement came in the form of an Aug. 12 all-staff memo from Jenkins, obtained by Mission Local. Assistant District Attorney James Conger was the last remaining prosecutor hired by ousted DA Chesa Boudin in the Independent Investigations Bureau of the DA’s office. That unit investigates police shootings and most police misconduct cases that may warrant criminal prosecution.
kotlin2 4y ago
Definitely can blame DAs for not brining charges. The rule of law is literally the only deterrence to anti-social behavior.
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  Crime has increased under the new DA… Seems like the rule of law isn’t much of a deterrence in this case
  - kotlin2 4y ago
    Changing DAs is not like deploying a software service. It takes time for changes to propagate.
  - qclibre22 4y ago
    Crime increased ... or crime reports increased. Perhaps people are now reporting crime because the police and DA will actually do something.
  - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
    When was the new DA inaugurated?
tomcam 4y ago
Do you feel that police are fully supported by the citizenry and DA to enforce existing laws?

mbgerring 4y ago

The Mayor of San Francisco appointed a tough-on-crime prosecutor who has spoken in public in favor of reviving failed policies like the war on drugs, purged employees hired by her progressive predecessor, and canceled investigations into police misconduct. You already have the most reactionary, cuff-em-and-stuff-em prosecutor you’re likely to get in San Francisco. So if crime is still a problem, you’re going to have to come up with a new excuse.

mbgerring 4y ago
Also, SFPD’s budget was not cut in the wake of protests against police violence. There was no defunding of police in San Francisco. You can’t blame their inaction on policies that were not implemented here.
- egberts1 4y ago
  Ummm, SF voters voted to make their police force "SMALLER"! https://www.vox.com/2020/11/4/21537593/san-francisco-proposition-e-police-staffing-results https://www.vox.com/2020/11/4/21537593/san-francisco-proposi...
  - mbgerring 4y ago
    No, we voted to give the city the authority to reduce the size of the police force. They haven’t actually used that authority. Nor have they reduce the police budget.
    - egberts1 4y ago
      You sure? https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/2021-02/SFPDStaffingStudyReport20210304.pdf https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/2021-...
  - camdat 4y ago
    Did you even read the article? They weren't meeting these numbers for a long time. >The proposition also requires San Francisco to end a requirement that there be a specified number of full-duty sworn police officers assigned to neighborhood policing and patrol — a number law enforcement officials say has never been met due to resource constraints.

xbar 4y ago

Does the city have any will to change?

cavisne 4y ago

At this point it's basically the monty python "its just a flesh wound" scene. Anyone who has visited SF knows exactly whats going on. Anyone who lives in SF also knows exactly whats going on. They'll just desperately point to some statistic from a tiny town they've never been to that actually measures and enforces the law. Anything to justify continuing to vote for whatever the media tells them to vote for next.

ethbr0 4y ago
It's not the media or the this or the that -- it's the lack of competition. In ideas and options. Groupthink of any ilk leads to death.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

camdat 4y ago

Can you provide any... yaknow... evidence that crime is going up on average? Just a quick Google implies that this is a complete fabrication https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/San-Francisco-crime-Chesa-Boudin-London-Breed-16751930.php https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/San-Francisco-crime-Che... https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim... https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/san-francisco-crime-rates-17487348.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/san-francisco-crime-r... >Ideology gets the best of people and they don't want to believe. The irony of saying this with no data to back up your claim, and the data that exists showing the exact opposite of your claim, is truly palpable

Brendinooo 4y ago
I’m not exactly invested in a side here, but doesn’t the first article concede that people aren’t reporting larceny crimes because the police aren’t doing anything about it?
CPLX 4y ago
The article you’re commenting on is evidence and data. Are you aware that you’re countering data gathered by a long-standing reputable newspaper with data gathered by the police department? Do you think there’s some other way of measuring theft besides people saying “I am the victim of a theft”?
- camdat 4y ago
  I don't see how it's useful evidence when there's no time series. What if more people were victims of crime in the past and this number has improved?
mc32 4y ago
https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/crime https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/crime
- camdat 4y ago

mbgerring 4y ago

> It will take years to recover from "Defund the Police" There has not been any reduction of the SF police budget in this century. The Mayor made a speech in 2020 suggesting that some funds would be redirected from police budgets into some social programs, but this did not represent any actual reduction in police funding. If you are under the impression that SF was in any way affected by “defunding the police,” you are mistaken, because that didn’t happen.

anigbrowl 4y ago

Sure, there have been nadirs before, the 80's after all industry left and only some financial services were left downtown --there were vagrants and muggings but for the most part, if you kept away from the bad neighborhoods, you were unaffected. When I first came to SF the city was int he grip of a crack epidemic and. I've seen people get shot in the face broad daylight and been in the middle of a driveby. The city is going through an uptick in crime at the moment but its mainly property crime. I don't feel significantly less safe, though that's partly because I have a lot of experience with unsafe situations. A large part of this is simply driven by poverty and prices. Policymakers, business owners, and pundits naturally want a city full of high-earning go-getters whose money will increase the general level of prosperity, fair enough. But there's some sort of naive belief that people at the bottom end of the scale magically teleport themselves away to other labor/residential markets where they'll be more competitive, because economics class made it look just that simple.

braingenious 4y ago

> Now, theft is rampant and unabated. It will take years to recover from "Defund the Police" and No-bail, charge drooping DAs. I agree that ideology gets the best of people. For example there is a baffling group of people set on blaming all current and future crime on a previous DA and absolving the current DA, mayor and SFPD leadership of _any_ responsibility for what goes on in the city. It doesn’t make a lick of sense to me rationally, but I understand the appeal of having a singular boogeyman to blame everything on, kind of like Evangelicals and their fixation on Satan.

daniel-cussen 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

duxup 4y ago

> It will take years to recover from "Defund the Police" Did that actually happen though? The initiative failed when it came to a vote in Minneapolis, crime was up already anyway, even without such initiatives.