3 ms·

Who said it did? The precedent people are always citing is that the FTC cared to sue Microsoft for doing it; not that anything came of it.

by derefr 4y ago

scarface74 4y ago
And that’s about as useless as the EU caring to protect users privacy and writing a 99 section 11 chapter law and the only thing users got were cookie pop ups.
alwillis 4y ago
not that anything came of it. You’re joking, right? The free and open web, to the extent we have it, only exists today because Microsoft wasn’t allowed to force IE, Active X, Silverlight and the rest of their technologies down everyone’s throat. Oh, and JScript [1], their proprietary version of JavaScript would have been the industry standard. We wouldn’t have the W3C or WHATWG creating open standards for the web had Microsoft been allowed to essentially turn the web into another Microsoft runtime environment. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript
- scarface74 4y ago
  > The free and open web, to the extent we have it, only exists today because Microsoft wasn’t allowed to force IE, Active X, Silverlight and the rest of their technologies down everyone’s throat. Oh, and JScript [1], their proprietary version of JavaScript would have been the industry standard The justice department at no point stopped Microsoft from bundling IE with Windows. Besides that, up until 2008-2010, the “free and open web” was littered with proprietary Flash apps. It wasn’t until Apple refused to support Flash on iPhones that anyone started worrying about standards. > Microsoft been allowed to essentially turn the web into another Microsoft runtime environment. Nothing that the FTC did prevented that. No part of the consent decree caused MS to behave any differently with respect to IE. And if you don’t remember, the “modern web” as it exists today with Ajax was actually a Microsoft addition that everyone else added. JScript was no more or less proprietary than Netscape’s “LiveScript” before Netscape jumped on the Java bandwagon and called it Javascript. It’s not like JS came from a standards body.
  - alwillis 4y ago
    The justice department at no point stopped Microsoft from bundling IE with Windows. Nobody suggested otherwise; but that actually wasn’t the point. Microsoft made a deal with the government to stop most of its anticompetitive behavior. It was less about the bundling of IE with Windows than giving OEMs the choice to ship other browsers in addition to IE. Besides that, up until 2008-2010, the “free and open web” was littered with proprietary Flash apps. But that was a choice made by the market to adopt Flash instead of having of having all of the Microsoft stuff forced on them. Nobody forced developers to adopt Flash and there were other choices for audio/video, even if they weren’t as popular as Flash. And if you don’t remember, the “modern web” as it exists today with Ajax was actually a Microsoft addition that everyone else added. Well, to be accurate, Microsoft shipped XMLHttpRequest in IE 5.0 in 1999, as a proprietary Active X component for their products; it was never intended to be a web standard. But it was a cool idea so the other browser makers implemented it. The term AJAX was coined by a Google employee in 2005 and was standardized by the W3C in 2006 [1]. It’s no different than Apple developing the canvas [2] element, which became a web standard, except they were more intentional than Microsoft was about XMLHttpRequest which would be renamed as AJAX. Things would have been very different if the FTC and European regulators (who did make Microsoft ship a version of Windows without IE [3] hadn’t gotten involved. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajax_(programming) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajax_(programming) [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canvas_element https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canvas_element [3]: No IE onboard Windows 7 in Europe http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8096701.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8096701.stm
    - scarface74 4y ago
      > But that was a choice made by the market to adopt Flash instead of having of having all of the Microsoft stuff forced on them. Nobody forced developers to adopt Flash and there were other choices for audio/video, even if they weren’t as popular as Flash. The comment I replied to gave credit to the FTC. Which is not true. > Microsoft made a deal with the government to stop most of its anticompetitive behavior. It was less about the bundling of IE with Windows than giving OEMs the choice to ship other browsers in addition to IE Microsoft didn’t just promise “we will be good little boys”. The parent poster gave the credit to the FTC. Firefox didn’t become popular for awhile because it was bundled by OEMs. MS basically just stopped development on IE. Then Chrome took off because it was heavily advertised on the Google home page and bundled with third party downloads. As far as IE not being bundled with windows 7 because of the EU. This is an example of government ineffectiveness. Windows 7 came out in 2009. Web browsing on the desktop was starting Gibbs yesterdays news by then. The iPhone had been out for two years and Chrome was already ascendant.

Who said it did? The precedent people are always citing is that the FTC cared to sue Microsoft for doing it; not that anything came of it.

by derefr 4y ago

Who said it did? The precedent people are always citing is that the FTC cared to sue Microsoft for doing it; not that anything came of it.

scarface74 4y ago

And that’s about as useless as the EU caring to protect users privacy and writing a 99 section 11 chapter law and the only thing users got were cookie pop ups.

alwillis 4y ago

not that anything came of it. You’re joking, right? The free and open web, to the extent we have it, only exists today because Microsoft wasn’t allowed to force IE, Active X, Silverlight and the rest of their technologies down everyone’s throat. Oh, and JScript [1], their proprietary version of JavaScript would have been the industry standard. We wouldn’t have the W3C or WHATWG creating open standards for the web had Microsoft been allowed to essentially turn the web into another Microsoft runtime environment. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript

scarface74 4y ago
> The free and open web, to the extent we have it, only exists today because Microsoft wasn’t allowed to force IE, Active X, Silverlight and the rest of their technologies down everyone’s throat. Oh, and JScript [1], their proprietary version of JavaScript would have been the industry standard The justice department at no point stopped Microsoft from bundling IE with Windows. Besides that, up until 2008-2010, the “free and open web” was littered with proprietary Flash apps. It wasn’t until Apple refused to support Flash on iPhones that anyone started worrying about standards. > Microsoft been allowed to essentially turn the web into another Microsoft runtime environment. Nothing that the FTC did prevented that. No part of the consent decree caused MS to behave any differently with respect to IE. And if you don’t remember, the “modern web” as it exists today with Ajax was actually a Microsoft addition that everyone else added. JScript was no more or less proprietary than Netscape’s “LiveScript” before Netscape jumped on the Java bandwagon and called it Javascript. It’s not like JS came from a standards body.
- alwillis 4y ago
  The justice department at no point stopped Microsoft from bundling IE with Windows. Nobody suggested otherwise; but that actually wasn’t the point. Microsoft made a deal with the government to stop most of its anticompetitive behavior. It was less about the bundling of IE with Windows than giving OEMs the choice to ship other browsers in addition to IE. Besides that, up until 2008-2010, the “free and open web” was littered with proprietary Flash apps. But that was a choice made by the market to adopt Flash instead of having of having all of the Microsoft stuff forced on them. Nobody forced developers to adopt Flash and there were other choices for audio/video, even if they weren’t as popular as Flash. And if you don’t remember, the “modern web” as it exists today with Ajax was actually a Microsoft addition that everyone else added. Well, to be accurate, Microsoft shipped XMLHttpRequest in IE 5.0 in 1999, as a proprietary Active X component for their products; it was never intended to be a web standard. But it was a cool idea so the other browser makers implemented it. The term AJAX was coined by a Google employee in 2005 and was standardized by the W3C in 2006 [1]. It’s no different than Apple developing the canvas [2] element, which became a web standard, except they were more intentional than Microsoft was about XMLHttpRequest which would be renamed as AJAX. Things would have been very different if the FTC and European regulators (who did make Microsoft ship a version of Windows without IE [3] hadn’t gotten involved. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajax_(programming) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajax_(programming) [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canvas_element https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canvas_element [3]: No IE onboard Windows 7 in Europe http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8096701.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8096701.stm
  - scarface74 4y ago
    > But that was a choice made by the market to adopt Flash instead of having of having all of the Microsoft stuff forced on them. Nobody forced developers to adopt Flash and there were other choices for audio/video, even if they weren’t as popular as Flash. The comment I replied to gave credit to the FTC. Which is not true. > Microsoft made a deal with the government to stop most of its anticompetitive behavior. It was less about the bundling of IE with Windows than giving OEMs the choice to ship other browsers in addition to IE Microsoft didn’t just promise “we will be good little boys”. The parent poster gave the credit to the FTC. Firefox didn’t become popular for awhile because it was bundled by OEMs. MS basically just stopped development on IE. Then Chrome took off because it was heavily advertised on the Google home page and bundled with third party downloads. As far as IE not being bundled with windows 7 because of the EU. This is an example of government ineffectiveness. Windows 7 came out in 2009. Web browsing on the desktop was starting Gibbs yesterdays news by then. The iPhone had been out for two years and Chrome was already ascendant.