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If you want a cheap flute you can easily find one for under $200, or cheaper used. With nice instruments, this is a lot like looking at high end furniture and s

by _jal 4y ago

If you want a cheap flute you can easily find one for under $200, or cheaper used. With nice instruments, this is a lot like looking at high end furniture and saying, "I could make a table so much more cheaply." Yes, you could. But you're not going to attract the same buyers.

derefr 4y ago
I think, in this case, it's more akin to a shipwright of wooden galleons saying they could make a table more cheaply than the guy who only makes tables for a living could; or a medieval military swordsmith saying they could make kitchen knives more cheaply than the guy who only makes kitchen knives for a living could. I.e. someone who does all the same work that these niche "artisans" do, with usually even higher quality (because of actual commercial requirements and engineering tolerances being involved), often in 1/10th the time, repeatably at scale, as just one aspect of much larger projects. Similarly, in this case, I bet any boilermaker (or steam turbine engineer) could make a better flute mouthpiece than an instrument-maker could. At scale, for cheap. They're pipe fittings, with mouth gaskets!
- jefftk 4y ago
  > They're pipe fittings Sort of. With most pipe we don't care that much about the exact paths the fluid or gas takes because it's for moving things and not making sound. Small choices that would be completely irrelevant in building an industrial boiler would still have clear effects on the sound of a flute.
msla 4y ago
So people are paying for the brand name.
- scottlamb 4y ago
  No, there's a real difference between my $200 Armstrong beginner's flute and my $2,000 [1] Miyazawa intermediate flute in terms of result (sound), materials (nickel vs silver), and process (factory vs artisan). (To a point, of course: a good flutist will still sound better on the Armstrong than a bad flutist will on the Miyazawa.) [1] price when I bought it. More now. Musical instruments appreciate, unlike electronics.
  - dhosek 4y ago
    Indeed, the tone quality from a solid silver Sankyo flute is absolutely distinguishable from the tone of a nickel Armstrong. I’m not sure that I buy the arguments for, say, gold lip plates, but there is an audible difference between silver and nickel.
    - lisper 4y ago
      > the tone quality from a solid silver Sankyo flute is absolutely distinguishable from the tone of a nickel Armstrong Different, sure. But better? Two orders of magnitude better? Seems improbable to me.
      - _jal 4y ago
        We're talking about aesthetics and art. How do you quantify a unit of "better"? And perhaps more importantly, how many musicians agree with you? If you want to fall back to economic evidence, centuries of musicians appear to have wallet-voted the other way.
        lisper 4y ago
        Sure, but some people pay $30,000 for a bottle of Chateau Petrus too. Personally, I think they're crazy. But it's not the existence of the high end that I'm remarking on, it's the apparent lack of low-end competition. Where is the two-buck chuck of vertical flute adapters?

by _jal 4y ago

derefr 4y ago

I think, in this case, it's more akin to a shipwright of wooden galleons saying they could make a table more cheaply than the guy who only makes tables for a living could; or a medieval military swordsmith saying they could make kitchen knives more cheaply than the guy who only makes kitchen knives for a living could. I.e. someone who does all the same work that these niche "artisans" do, with usually even higher quality (because of actual commercial requirements and engineering tolerances being involved), often in 1/10th the time, repeatably at scale, as just one aspect of much larger projects. Similarly, in this case, I bet any boilermaker (or steam turbine engineer) could make a better flute mouthpiece than an instrument-maker could. At scale, for cheap. They're pipe fittings, with mouth gaskets!

jefftk 4y ago
> They're pipe fittings Sort of. With most pipe we don't care that much about the exact paths the fluid or gas takes because it's for moving things and not making sound. Small choices that would be completely irrelevant in building an industrial boiler would still have clear effects on the sound of a flute.

msla 4y ago

So people are paying for the brand name.

scottlamb 4y ago
No, there's a real difference between my $200 Armstrong beginner's flute and my $2,000 [1] Miyazawa intermediate flute in terms of result (sound), materials (nickel vs silver), and process (factory vs artisan). (To a point, of course: a good flutist will still sound better on the Armstrong than a bad flutist will on the Miyazawa.) [1] price when I bought it. More now. Musical instruments appreciate, unlike electronics.
- dhosek 4y ago
  Indeed, the tone quality from a solid silver Sankyo flute is absolutely distinguishable from the tone of a nickel Armstrong. I’m not sure that I buy the arguments for, say, gold lip plates, but there is an audible difference between silver and nickel.
  - lisper 4y ago
    > the tone quality from a solid silver Sankyo flute is absolutely distinguishable from the tone of a nickel Armstrong Different, sure. But better? Two orders of magnitude better? Seems improbable to me.
    - _jal 4y ago
      We're talking about aesthetics and art. How do you quantify a unit of "better"? And perhaps more importantly, how many musicians agree with you? If you want to fall back to economic evidence, centuries of musicians appear to have wallet-voted the other way.
      - lisper 4y ago
        Sure, but some people pay $30,000 for a bottle of Chateau Petrus too. Personally, I think they're crazy. But it's not the existence of the high end that I'm remarking on, it's the apparent lack of low-end competition. Where is the two-buck chuck of vertical flute adapters?