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> The standard ("transverse") flute has pretty terrible ergonomics: your arms are way out to the side. Why is that bad? It's never bothered me. The only ergono

> The standard ("transverse") flute has pretty terrible ergonomics: your arms are way out to the side. Why is that bad? It's never bothered me. The only ergonomic complaints I have about my Miyazawa are its inline G key (really stretching my left ring finger to seal the open hole properly) and how much pressure I need with my right pinky to make the C#/C keys work (uncomfortable, and I do actually mess it up sometimes).

derefr 4y ago
> Why is that bad? It's never bothered me. Presumably because of https://www.techopedia.com/definition/31480/gorilla-arm https://www.techopedia.com/definition/31480/gorilla-arm. If you're only playing the flute for an hour a day, you might not notice it; but if you're doing it for eight hours a day, as a professional performer, your arm muscles are going to be tired and shaking at the end of each day. And they don't have to be! Also, re: the page linked in the sibling comment (https://www.flutespecialists.com/product/flute-lab-vertical-headjoint/ https://www.flutespecialists.com/product/flute-lab-vertical-...): > The Vertical Headjoint allows flutists who thought they would never play the flute again to do so. I take that to mean "people with Parkinsonism, and other conditions that mean that holding your arms up becomes hard."
- scottlamb 4y ago
  > If you're only playing the flute for an hour a day, you might not notice it; but if you're doing it for eight hours a day, as a professional performer, your arm muscles are going to be tired and shaking at the end of each day. Maybe? I've done 4+ hour days and my arms were fine. [edit: I recall my embouchure/lips giving out on particularly long days, not my arms!] I wasn't a big weight lifter or anything at the time either. If I tried that right now, when I'm way out of practice, it might be hard at first, but I think I'd be fine again before long. Muscles adapt to use. Your arms are bent and not really that far out when playing the flute, and flutes aren't that heavy. > I take that to mean "people with Parkinsonism, and other conditions that mean that holding your arms up becomes hard." Interesting. Yeah, that's great if it makes that kind of a difference for someone. I'm not sure there's any widespread demand though.
- MandieD 4y ago
  I had to quit after college with shoulder and wrist pain, and I’m an average-sized woman with no unusual health problems. Getting a student flute with closed holes, offset G and curved head joint let me play again at all, but I can’t bring myself to sell my silver Yamaha (they used to make intermediate flutes from solid silver, kids! They also made them in Japan!) If I thought I’d play enough, I’d consider a vertical head joint, even at that kind of outlay.
  - scottlamb 4y ago
    Wow, okay, yeah, maybe it is a wider experience than I'd realized. Thanks for sharing. I'm a 6' tall man and seem to have more of my length in my torso than most, so I might have long arms too. Maybe that's part of why it hasn't been a problem for me.
scarecrowbob 4y ago
Well, it clearly wprks for a whole lot of folks and I'm not really in a position to critique it too much. However, I play a lot of musical instruments in various semi-professional capacities (on stage for money, but not enough to live off of) including pedal steel guitar, piano, clarinet, trumpet, double bass, cello, drums, accordion, among other stuff. Every instrument has issues. If the flute works it works, but I have an okay sliver armstrong flute I am supposed to re-pad and return to my mother, and after playing through the Rubank beginner's book I feel like the ergonomics aren't good at all. Like, I gave myself a wrist injury learning trumpet and trumpet still feels like a way more ergonomic device. If it doesn't bother you then I can't argue with ya. But as someone who has a whole pantheon of badly-designed instruments to look at it's easy for me to say it's not my favorite. I spend a lot of time with a clarinet lately and can see the value in a vertical flute.

derefr 4y ago

> Why is that bad? It's never bothered me. Presumably because of https://www.techopedia.com/definition/31480/gorilla-arm https://www.techopedia.com/definition/31480/gorilla-arm. If you're only playing the flute for an hour a day, you might not notice it; but if you're doing it for eight hours a day, as a professional performer, your arm muscles are going to be tired and shaking at the end of each day. And they don't have to be! Also, re: the page linked in the sibling comment (https://www.flutespecialists.com/product/flute-lab-vertical-headjoint/ https://www.flutespecialists.com/product/flute-lab-vertical-...): > The Vertical Headjoint allows flutists who thought they would never play the flute again to do so. I take that to mean "people with Parkinsonism, and other conditions that mean that holding your arms up becomes hard."

scottlamb 4y ago
> If you're only playing the flute for an hour a day, you might not notice it; but if you're doing it for eight hours a day, as a professional performer, your arm muscles are going to be tired and shaking at the end of each day. Maybe? I've done 4+ hour days and my arms were fine. [edit: I recall my embouchure/lips giving out on particularly long days, not my arms!] I wasn't a big weight lifter or anything at the time either. If I tried that right now, when I'm way out of practice, it might be hard at first, but I think I'd be fine again before long. Muscles adapt to use. Your arms are bent and not really that far out when playing the flute, and flutes aren't that heavy. > I take that to mean "people with Parkinsonism, and other conditions that mean that holding your arms up becomes hard." Interesting. Yeah, that's great if it makes that kind of a difference for someone. I'm not sure there's any widespread demand though.
MandieD 4y ago
I had to quit after college with shoulder and wrist pain, and I’m an average-sized woman with no unusual health problems. Getting a student flute with closed holes, offset G and curved head joint let me play again at all, but I can’t bring myself to sell my silver Yamaha (they used to make intermediate flutes from solid silver, kids! They also made them in Japan!) If I thought I’d play enough, I’d consider a vertical head joint, even at that kind of outlay.
- scottlamb 4y ago
  Wow, okay, yeah, maybe it is a wider experience than I'd realized. Thanks for sharing. I'm a 6' tall man and seem to have more of my length in my torso than most, so I might have long arms too. Maybe that's part of why it hasn't been a problem for me.

scarecrowbob 4y ago

Well, it clearly wprks for a whole lot of folks and I'm not really in a position to critique it too much. However, I play a lot of musical instruments in various semi-professional capacities (on stage for money, but not enough to live off of) including pedal steel guitar, piano, clarinet, trumpet, double bass, cello, drums, accordion, among other stuff. Every instrument has issues. If the flute works it works, but I have an okay sliver armstrong flute I am supposed to re-pad and return to my mother, and after playing through the Rubank beginner's book I feel like the ergonomics aren't good at all. Like, I gave myself a wrist injury learning trumpet and trumpet still feels like a way more ergonomic device. If it doesn't bother you then I can't argue with ya. But as someone who has a whole pantheon of badly-designed instruments to look at it's easy for me to say it's not my favorite. I spend a lot of time with a clarinet lately and can see the value in a vertical flute.