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If "platform" companies like Apple, Google, Microsoft weren't capable of advantaging themselves via anti-competitive practices, their stock values wouldn't be n

If "platform" companies like Apple, Google, Microsoft weren't capable of advantaging themselves via anti-competitive practices, their stock values wouldn't be nearly as high. Their implicit leverage over the markets they oversee via their OSes is the core of why they are the biggest companies in the world. Fines are a cost of doing business, hardly a deterrent when your product (your OS) is the conduit through which entire industries operate.

musicale 4y ago
Microsoft's OS dominance through Windows is probably why Windows Phone is so successful, right? ;-) Presumably Apple also leveraged the Mac's unquestioned dominance of the PC space to enable the iPhone to beat established incumbents like Nokia, Blackberry and Palm. And Android undoubtedly became popular primarily because of Google's dominance in web search. I can't believe government regulators let these companies get away with such things.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y ago
  > Microsoft's OS dominance through Windows is probably why Windows Phone is so successful, right? ;-) Where can I go on MSN to read up more on your explanation for Windows Phone dominance?
- makeitdouble 4y ago
  This is of course an excellent point: Microsoft getting repeatedly fined and slapped with anti-trust violations had actual results on their business practices. It might not have stopped them from other problematic behaviors, put certainly had a braking effect on the "nothing can stop us" train they were riding. The direct effect could be the Windows Phone not crushing the better options, yes. As you point out, Apple and Google sure need the same treatment, and it seems something is finally happening after all these years of abuse.
  - vkou 4y ago
    I wouldn't describe Nokia, Blackberry, or Palm as 'better options' in that space.
    - makeitdouble 4y ago
      I'm not sure what you are pointing at, what are Nokia, Blackberry, or Palm alternatives of ? They all peaked at different areas and I feel little overlap.
      - vkou 4y ago
        Your post had a few implications. 1. There were phones better than Windows Phone. 2. Microsoft failed to bully its way into dominance with a worse product. 3. Google and Apple, on the other hand, did. What were the better products than Windows Phone? Certainly it wasn't Palm, Nokia, or Blackberry. You don't seem to think so, either. Was it Android and IOS? Does this mean you think they are the better/best products? If so, why do you also assert #3?
        makeitdouble 4y ago
        I see iOS and android as fundamentally better than the Windows Phone. Windows Phone was an innovative idea and a breeze of fresh air, but was way too opinionated and only shined in some specific usage patterns. That’s why I think developers had such a hard time to adapt to it. If I had to choose a dead horse, I’d choose Palm’s WebOS as a more viable idea that was very poorly executed and way too early for the market. > Google and Apple, on the other hand, did. Both these companies bullied competition in other aspects than the OS in itself. Google bullied makers through the Play Store+Play services bundling, forcing them to get rid of preinstalled third party stores and keep the Google search widget on the home screen and Google as the default search engine. Apple bullied app makers by kicking any third party store, third party web engine, blocked third party content store and mail clients from getting default status. Apple’s top position as a music service comes from the iPod, but was also clearly cemented by locking out competition as the iPhone was the top selling smartphone. People are a lot more divided on where’s Apple’s fault, but at least I don’t see it as an issue of OS bundling the same way Microsoft crossed the line on OS bundling. Times have changed in this respect.
- wiseowise 4y ago
  > Microsoft's OS dominance through Windows is probably why Windows Phone is so successful, right? Google software and Android literally pushed Windows Phone out of existence, yes.
- weberer 4y ago
  You can't possibly think Windows would have the market share it has now if people were able to just walk into the store and buy the same laptops with Linux installed.
  - lupire 4y ago
    Linux on the Deaktop barely worked for non IT specialists, at the time of that lawsuit.
- Razengan 4y ago
  To those it's not clear to: Note that the parent comment is sarcasm.
scarface74 4y ago
Yes because, Apple with only 3% market share in India should gain the same attention as Android. https://www.statista.com/statistics/262157/market-share-held-by-mobile-operating-systems-in-india/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/262157/market-share-held... Have you ever thought that Apple’s market cap may be because people choose to pay a premium for their hardware using their own free will?
- smaudet 4y ago
  Where Microsoft had marketing and familiarity, Apple has/had a better touch (UX as it's often called). Unfortunately for people who entered their ecosystem, there is a heavy influence to keep them there (more than a walled garden, an active insulation and inculcation - its hard to take your life elsewhere if you bought into the Apple ecosystem). That's disappeared a bit with the cloud, but native apps still perform better, and a side effect of their walled garden is the apps that do survive tend to lack a lot of the junk and spyware that android users must dodge... I think its a strong word to say "choose" - rather they are compelled. Ofc some choose, but thousands of dollars in, its hard for the average to justify sinking that capital. Android phones don't sync with iCloud, don't connect to Apple TV, don't have iMessage or Facetime (at least I think not), don't sync their music libraries and don't do whatever it is Apple is selling gadget for these days. I think if users were just choosing, it would be as easy to switch as it is to put on a different shirt. I can buy a shirt, I can't choose a phone. I say this as someone unwilling to invest in phones or supporting gadgets, and also not entirely happy with Android either.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    > Unfortunately for people who entered their ecosystem, there is a heavy influence to keep them there (more than a walled garden, an active insulation and inculcation - its hard to take your life elsewhere if you bought into the Apple ecosystem). Where? Any music you bought from iTunes since 2009 was DRM free. Apple Music runs on Android, Amazon Fire devices and a few other non Apple platforms. The AppleTV app is available on every streaming platform and you can watch movies and TV shows you purchased. Apple also participates in the Movies AnyWhere initiative along with most of the major studios. Meaning when you purchase a movie from Apple, Amazon, Google, Vudu etc they are added to all of your libraries. AirPlay support is available on Roku devices as well as a few other platforms. AirPods work as standard BT devices on non iOS devices. The standard file dialog that apps use to save and load files surfaces all of your installed storage providers (Dropbox, Google Drive, OneDrive, etc) equally along with iCloud. If you are on an Android and have to get files off of iCloud, you go to the web. FaceTime has been available for Android for a couple of years. > don't sync their music libraries and don't do whatever it is Apple is selling gadget for these days. Almost everyone uses a streaming service in 2022 and Apple Music is available for Android.

musicale 4y ago

Microsoft's OS dominance through Windows is probably why Windows Phone is so successful, right? ;-) Presumably Apple also leveraged the Mac's unquestioned dominance of the PC space to enable the iPhone to beat established incumbents like Nokia, Blackberry and Palm. And Android undoubtedly became popular primarily because of Google's dominance in web search. I can't believe government regulators let these companies get away with such things.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y ago
> Microsoft's OS dominance through Windows is probably why Windows Phone is so successful, right? ;-) Where can I go on MSN to read up more on your explanation for Windows Phone dominance?
makeitdouble 4y ago
This is of course an excellent point: Microsoft getting repeatedly fined and slapped with anti-trust violations had actual results on their business practices. It might not have stopped them from other problematic behaviors, put certainly had a braking effect on the "nothing can stop us" train they were riding. The direct effect could be the Windows Phone not crushing the better options, yes. As you point out, Apple and Google sure need the same treatment, and it seems something is finally happening after all these years of abuse.
- vkou 4y ago
  I wouldn't describe Nokia, Blackberry, or Palm as 'better options' in that space.
  - makeitdouble 4y ago
    I'm not sure what you are pointing at, what are Nokia, Blackberry, or Palm alternatives of ? They all peaked at different areas and I feel little overlap.
    - vkou 4y ago
      Your post had a few implications. 1. There were phones better than Windows Phone. 2. Microsoft failed to bully its way into dominance with a worse product. 3. Google and Apple, on the other hand, did. What were the better products than Windows Phone? Certainly it wasn't Palm, Nokia, or Blackberry. You don't seem to think so, either. Was it Android and IOS? Does this mean you think they are the better/best products? If so, why do you also assert #3?
      - makeitdouble 4y ago
        I see iOS and android as fundamentally better than the Windows Phone. Windows Phone was an innovative idea and a breeze of fresh air, but was way too opinionated and only shined in some specific usage patterns. That’s why I think developers had such a hard time to adapt to it. If I had to choose a dead horse, I’d choose Palm’s WebOS as a more viable idea that was very poorly executed and way too early for the market. > Google and Apple, on the other hand, did. Both these companies bullied competition in other aspects than the OS in itself. Google bullied makers through the Play Store+Play services bundling, forcing them to get rid of preinstalled third party stores and keep the Google search widget on the home screen and Google as the default search engine. Apple bullied app makers by kicking any third party store, third party web engine, blocked third party content store and mail clients from getting default status. Apple’s top position as a music service comes from the iPod, but was also clearly cemented by locking out competition as the iPhone was the top selling smartphone. People are a lot more divided on where’s Apple’s fault, but at least I don’t see it as an issue of OS bundling the same way Microsoft crossed the line on OS bundling. Times have changed in this respect.
wiseowise 4y ago
> Microsoft's OS dominance through Windows is probably why Windows Phone is so successful, right? Google software and Android literally pushed Windows Phone out of existence, yes.
weberer 4y ago
You can't possibly think Windows would have the market share it has now if people were able to just walk into the store and buy the same laptops with Linux installed.
- lupire 4y ago
  Linux on the Deaktop barely worked for non IT specialists, at the time of that lawsuit.
Razengan 4y ago
To those it's not clear to: Note that the parent comment is sarcasm.

scarface74 4y ago

Yes because, Apple with only 3% market share in India should gain the same attention as Android. https://www.statista.com/statistics/262157/market-share-held-by-mobile-operating-systems-in-india/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/262157/market-share-held... Have you ever thought that Apple’s market cap may be because people choose to pay a premium for their hardware using their own free will?

smaudet 4y ago
Where Microsoft had marketing and familiarity, Apple has/had a better touch (UX as it's often called). Unfortunately for people who entered their ecosystem, there is a heavy influence to keep them there (more than a walled garden, an active insulation and inculcation - its hard to take your life elsewhere if you bought into the Apple ecosystem). That's disappeared a bit with the cloud, but native apps still perform better, and a side effect of their walled garden is the apps that do survive tend to lack a lot of the junk and spyware that android users must dodge... I think its a strong word to say "choose" - rather they are compelled. Ofc some choose, but thousands of dollars in, its hard for the average to justify sinking that capital. Android phones don't sync with iCloud, don't connect to Apple TV, don't have iMessage or Facetime (at least I think not), don't sync their music libraries and don't do whatever it is Apple is selling gadget for these days. I think if users were just choosing, it would be as easy to switch as it is to put on a different shirt. I can buy a shirt, I can't choose a phone. I say this as someone unwilling to invest in phones or supporting gadgets, and also not entirely happy with Android either.
- scarface74 4y ago
  > Unfortunately for people who entered their ecosystem, there is a heavy influence to keep them there (more than a walled garden, an active insulation and inculcation - its hard to take your life elsewhere if you bought into the Apple ecosystem). Where? Any music you bought from iTunes since 2009 was DRM free. Apple Music runs on Android, Amazon Fire devices and a few other non Apple platforms. The AppleTV app is available on every streaming platform and you can watch movies and TV shows you purchased. Apple also participates in the Movies AnyWhere initiative along with most of the major studios. Meaning when you purchase a movie from Apple, Amazon, Google, Vudu etc they are added to all of your libraries. AirPlay support is available on Roku devices as well as a few other platforms. AirPods work as standard BT devices on non iOS devices. The standard file dialog that apps use to save and load files surfaces all of your installed storage providers (Dropbox, Google Drive, OneDrive, etc) equally along with iCloud. If you are on an Android and have to get files off of iCloud, you go to the web. FaceTime has been available for Android for a couple of years. > don't sync their music libraries and don't do whatever it is Apple is selling gadget for these days. Almost everyone uses a streaming service in 2022 and Apple Music is available for Android.