4 ms·

Can someone make an inexpensive PoE Doorbell? — IP camera FullHD or better, PoE, 2 way audio, with a button. With the popularity of NVRs, there's a niche marke

Can someone make an inexpensive PoE Doorbell? — IP camera FullHD or better, PoE, 2 way audio, with a button. With the popularity of NVRs, there's a niche market for those unsatisfied.

heywire 4y ago
I’m sure they could, but how many people have Ethernet at their doorbell? We recently built a new home, so I had the opportunity to hardwire all of our cameras, except the doorbells. There just weren’t great options that I could find. Luckily the Amcrest doorbells I chose have been rock solid. They support rtsp, so my NVR records them just like the rest of the cameras.
- sirmoveon 4y ago
  That's the point I'm trying to make. The popularity of having NVR systems with multiple cameras, rather than just a Doorbell makes it viable to think people would want this option over a supercharged Doorbell — The idea to process object detection at the doorbell is kind of ludicrous.
- yurymik 4y ago
  There's Ring Video Doorbell Elite, so the market isn't completely bare. Yes, it's Amazon and pricey, but it does exist.
- gerdesj 4y ago
  "but how many people have Ethernet at their doorbell?" With PoE and a UPS too. Your front door by definition is on an outer edge of your house. You can run conduit externally or whatever internally. It isn't beyond the wit of man to deploy wiring. If you need your "smart" doorbell to always work then you will get ethernet to it and ideally PoE too to power it. A UPS will keep it alive when the power is out. I also recommend that it is able to trigger a non smart chime too so if all "smart" stuff is unavailable, you still get notified. When my home (Doorbird) doorbell is pressed: Separate battery backed chime goes off, Sonos speakers say "Ding dong, there is somebody at the door", TVs get a notification, our mobile phone apps twitter. It is still possible to miss a doorbell press but quite hard. I do all my IoT stuff like that if possible - important stuff still works without the hub/internet/Home Assistant.
  - sirmoveon 4y ago
    Did you pay ~USD$400 for a Doorbird doorbell ?
  - Negitivefrags 4y ago
    I used to use a doorbird, and for the same reasons as you, but I found the speaker and mic quality to be bad enough that I couldn’t live with it. Usually I would try and talk to people over it and they wouldn’t even hear that I was talking. If I turned the volume up so that they notice, the over modulation was so bad that they couldn’t understand me. I ended up just going with a Ring even though it goes against my cloud stance. At least it works.
ars 4y ago
PoE doorbells exist, but are rare. The issue is that the proper size wire to provide power to a doorbell is larger than a Cat 5 cable. So if you run Cat 5 to your doorbell, you can't actually use it as a simple doorbell. (Cat 5 is 24 gauge, but you need 16 gauge for a doorbell.) If you are building a house and you want to leave options for the home owner what do you do? PoE Cat 5? Or standard doorbell wire? The market seems to have decided that you do a standard 16V AC 1A power to the doorbell, and then WiFi for the data. See: https://support.ring.com/hc/en-us/articles/360041807292-Selecting-the-Correct-Wire-Gauge-when-Wiring-a-Ring-Video-Doorbell-Pro https://support.ring.com/hc/en-us/articles/360041807292-Sele...
- sirmoveon 4y ago
  I believe that standard comes from the adaptation of conventional doorbells installations. In my opinion, what I see trending, is people wiring their houses for NVR systems with Cat5/6. In this scenario, a simplistic and cheap doorbell hardware, that connects to a PoE NVR and delegates all the object detection there, sounds far more valuable than a supercharged doorbell. As you said, they exists but are rare (and expensive). It seems to me there is a niche market that nobody is recognizing and taking advantage of.
  - ars 4y ago
    Personally I put in a standard doorbell wire, and then a Cat 5 wire above the door for a camera.
- bombcar 4y ago
  I suspect you could run PoE over 16 gauge cable, maybe not at gigabit, but good enough. Or you could run something like this: https://www.cablesforless.com/bundled-cable-cat5e-and-4c-16awg-500ft-white/ https://www.cablesforless.com/bundled-cable-cat5e-and-4c-16a...
  - ars 4y ago
    That product is just two cables stuck together. Instead you could just simply run both types of cable to the doorbell, especially since they'll probably go to different places. I googled a bit and it seems you might be able to run low speed Ethernet over untwisted wires if they are not long.
freedom-fries 4y ago
The economics of hardware unfortunately do not allow "niche" and "low-cost" to go together. The market for PoE doorbells is very small as it is, so the unit-cost will be high, which makes the market too small for anyone to serve, except probably DIY.
- sirmoveon 4y ago
  With the amount of PoE IP cameras out there, I find it hard to believe adding a button would take much R&D.
  - jasonjayr 4y ago
    A good chunk of the IP cameras have user-exposed pins that can send events when the circuit is closed, as well as detect if a circuit is open (NC/NO circuits). IIRC they are intended to detect if a door is open or closed. I'm not sure if they are polling those contacts fast enough for 'normal' doorbell use, but it's there ...
  - PeterisP 4y ago
    Trivial things such as injection mold costs (to make a cheap, cost-effective case) mean that low-cost manufacturers avoid adding a button like a plague - we're seeing the exact same layout used by multiple products and in some cases even multiple manufacturers, we're seeing "unused buttons" just as to be able to use the exact same plastic parts instead of having to make a new mold for a new, slightly different part. Cheap plastic shit is cheap only if you can make lots of them, because the variable cost is low - but as soon as you're talking about small quantities of niche products, the fixed costs dominate as soon as you try to do anything custom physically.
ccakes 4y ago
https://reolink.com/au/product/reolink-video-doorbell/ https://reolink.com/au/product/reolink-video-doorbell/ Not available yet but I believe they're aiming for this year. I have other Reolink cameras + NVR and it's pretty solid and doesn't rely on cloud at all
- sirmoveon 4y ago
  Nice find. It seems they were available since september and they are already out of stock. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4NQePbj4dM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4NQePbj4dM
nocsi 4y ago
Unifi Protect Cameras + Scrypted to bring the cameras into Homekit + HKSV.
MichaelZuo 4y ago
If you believe there’s a viable market, why not make it yourself and sell it instead of asking someone else to do it? Your on Hacker News after all.

Can someone make an inexpensive PoE Doorbell? — IP camera FullHD or better, PoE, 2 way audio, with a button. With the popularity of NVRs, there's a niche market for those unsatisfied.

heywire 4y ago

I’m sure they could, but how many people have Ethernet at their doorbell? We recently built a new home, so I had the opportunity to hardwire all of our cameras, except the doorbells. There just weren’t great options that I could find. Luckily the Amcrest doorbells I chose have been rock solid. They support rtsp, so my NVR records them just like the rest of the cameras.

sirmoveon 4y ago
That's the point I'm trying to make. The popularity of having NVR systems with multiple cameras, rather than just a Doorbell makes it viable to think people would want this option over a supercharged Doorbell — The idea to process object detection at the doorbell is kind of ludicrous.
yurymik 4y ago
There's Ring Video Doorbell Elite, so the market isn't completely bare. Yes, it's Amazon and pricey, but it does exist.
gerdesj 4y ago
"but how many people have Ethernet at their doorbell?" With PoE and a UPS too. Your front door by definition is on an outer edge of your house. You can run conduit externally or whatever internally. It isn't beyond the wit of man to deploy wiring. If you need your "smart" doorbell to always work then you will get ethernet to it and ideally PoE too to power it. A UPS will keep it alive when the power is out. I also recommend that it is able to trigger a non smart chime too so if all "smart" stuff is unavailable, you still get notified. When my home (Doorbird) doorbell is pressed: Separate battery backed chime goes off, Sonos speakers say "Ding dong, there is somebody at the door", TVs get a notification, our mobile phone apps twitter. It is still possible to miss a doorbell press but quite hard. I do all my IoT stuff like that if possible - important stuff still works without the hub/internet/Home Assistant.
- sirmoveon 4y ago
  Did you pay ~USD$400 for a Doorbird doorbell ?
- Negitivefrags 4y ago
  I used to use a doorbird, and for the same reasons as you, but I found the speaker and mic quality to be bad enough that I couldn’t live with it. Usually I would try and talk to people over it and they wouldn’t even hear that I was talking. If I turned the volume up so that they notice, the over modulation was so bad that they couldn’t understand me. I ended up just going with a Ring even though it goes against my cloud stance. At least it works.

ars 4y ago

PoE doorbells exist, but are rare. The issue is that the proper size wire to provide power to a doorbell is larger than a Cat 5 cable. So if you run Cat 5 to your doorbell, you can't actually use it as a simple doorbell. (Cat 5 is 24 gauge, but you need 16 gauge for a doorbell.) If you are building a house and you want to leave options for the home owner what do you do? PoE Cat 5? Or standard doorbell wire? The market seems to have decided that you do a standard 16V AC 1A power to the doorbell, and then WiFi for the data. See: https://support.ring.com/hc/en-us/articles/360041807292-Selecting-the-Correct-Wire-Gauge-when-Wiring-a-Ring-Video-Doorbell-Pro https://support.ring.com/hc/en-us/articles/360041807292-Sele...

sirmoveon 4y ago
I believe that standard comes from the adaptation of conventional doorbells installations. In my opinion, what I see trending, is people wiring their houses for NVR systems with Cat5/6. In this scenario, a simplistic and cheap doorbell hardware, that connects to a PoE NVR and delegates all the object detection there, sounds far more valuable than a supercharged doorbell. As you said, they exists but are rare (and expensive). It seems to me there is a niche market that nobody is recognizing and taking advantage of.
- ars 4y ago
  Personally I put in a standard doorbell wire, and then a Cat 5 wire above the door for a camera.
bombcar 4y ago
I suspect you could run PoE over 16 gauge cable, maybe not at gigabit, but good enough. Or you could run something like this: https://www.cablesforless.com/bundled-cable-cat5e-and-4c-16awg-500ft-white/ https://www.cablesforless.com/bundled-cable-cat5e-and-4c-16a...
- ars 4y ago
  That product is just two cables stuck together. Instead you could just simply run both types of cable to the doorbell, especially since they'll probably go to different places. I googled a bit and it seems you might be able to run low speed Ethernet over untwisted wires if they are not long.

freedom-fries 4y ago

The economics of hardware unfortunately do not allow "niche" and "low-cost" to go together. The market for PoE doorbells is very small as it is, so the unit-cost will be high, which makes the market too small for anyone to serve, except probably DIY.

sirmoveon 4y ago
With the amount of PoE IP cameras out there, I find it hard to believe adding a button would take much R&D.
- jasonjayr 4y ago
  A good chunk of the IP cameras have user-exposed pins that can send events when the circuit is closed, as well as detect if a circuit is open (NC/NO circuits). IIRC they are intended to detect if a door is open or closed. I'm not sure if they are polling those contacts fast enough for 'normal' doorbell use, but it's there ...
- PeterisP 4y ago
  Trivial things such as injection mold costs (to make a cheap, cost-effective case) mean that low-cost manufacturers avoid adding a button like a plague - we're seeing the exact same layout used by multiple products and in some cases even multiple manufacturers, we're seeing "unused buttons" just as to be able to use the exact same plastic parts instead of having to make a new mold for a new, slightly different part. Cheap plastic shit is cheap only if you can make lots of them, because the variable cost is low - but as soon as you're talking about small quantities of niche products, the fixed costs dominate as soon as you try to do anything custom physically.

ccakes 4y ago

https://reolink.com/au/product/reolink-video-doorbell/ https://reolink.com/au/product/reolink-video-doorbell/ Not available yet but I believe they're aiming for this year. I have other Reolink cameras + NVR and it's pretty solid and doesn't rely on cloud at all

sirmoveon 4y ago
Nice find. It seems they were available since september and they are already out of stock. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4NQePbj4dM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4NQePbj4dM

nocsi 4y ago

Unifi Protect Cameras + Scrypted to bring the cameras into Homekit + HKSV.

MichaelZuo 4y ago

If you believe there’s a viable market, why not make it yourself and sell it instead of asking someone else to do it? Your on Hacker News after all.