5 ms·

But that just fuels the fire. See, when a person already has evidence that 'other' opinions cannot be trusted, due to the many things being talked about in thi

by Manu40 4y ago

But that just fuels the fire. See, when a person already has evidence that 'other' opinions cannot be trusted, due to the many things being talked about in this thread by GP; It gives credibility to the alternatives because they at least make sense to those people's confirmation bias. Meanwhile, your own confirmation bias is being given credibility due to the things you believe to be true. This is the truth of all information until proven as objective fact. Until proven as objective fact, anyone can claim your 'truth' is just subjective; and thus potentially and highly likely wrong. And so it fuels the fire. The only solution (AFAIK) to this is that everyone leave each other alone for a while and let them figure these things out for themselves by letting good ol father time teach us what is right and wrong. Time. It's one thing in the universe that might not be lying to us, at least all the time; unlike humans who can't stop lying in attempts to ego stroke over being right.

lijogdfljk 4y ago
> The only solution to this is that everyone leave each other alone for a while and let them figure these things out for themselves by letting good ol father time teach us what is right and wrong. Time. It's one thing in the universe that might not be lying to us, at least all the time; unlike humans who can't stop lying in attempts to ego stroke over being right. Man, i couldn't disagree more - about this actually working, that is. This seems to assume that with time we will progress. I have seen the opposite enough to believe that we can, but also can just as likely regress. There are many out there that want to go back to removing rights from people based on skin tone, orientation, religion, gender, etc. Too frequently we reach a regression milestone that originally was projected to be the end of the regression, only to have us ramp up for the next regression milestone and fight over whether the next milestone is the end. I have zero faith in humans ability to cope here. I'm not sure on the solution, but to me it feels like we have a series of radio broadcasts which purposefully brainwash us and our only inclination is to turn the volume up, and make sure the neighbor can hear it through our windows. I am very, very pessimistic on our ability to dig out of this when we still willfully dug ourselves in to begin with.
- _c5eq 4y ago
  Well, 1. I never said it would happen quickly. Thing is, humans are rather impatient generally speaking. Especially when they think they are correct about something and must spread the enlightenment of their ego unto others. Time, doesn't wait on us. We wait on it. Here's an example: I play some MMO's now and then, and with the kind where people are fighting over territory in the game, all sorts of real world type politics ensue. Sure, it's just a game, but those are real people playing, meaning real brains doing things that they do; even in the real world. People who are actually morally upstanding act one way, and people who are actually terrible under their societal masks are... well... the other. Sometimes you get to deal with drama that is absolute bullshit, where the people who are less than morally upstanding cast out a bunch of lies, mistruths, and royal stinkers. What's the best way to deal with this? You just keep on doing what you do, provided it's not actually wrong, and leave them alone. What happens? Well, in my experience, the rest of the actually morally decent and upstanding people take notice of this, and then go on to cast out the liar. Now, you may want to say "But that's just a video game" or "That's just the internet". But I disagree entirely to the ends of the earth. Humans are humans, no matter how or where they communicate. The only difference is that some have less inhibitions to do certain things, much like how alcohol affects them. So the end result for me in these kinds of situations both IRL and online, is eventually people wise up. They eventually figure out that Manu40 isn't really the problem, and the real problem is the other asshole. (I say it that way, because I absolutely can be an asshole if I want to be.) I've seen this sort of things play out with myself, and others, so many times; that I cannot agree with you. I can see where you come from though. Which brings me to #2. 2. Generally speaking, most of those problems you speak about in regards to rights, religion, race, gender, sex, orientations, etc, etc... most of these problems stem from people not leaving each other the F alone. These all stem from people being overly concerned, or angered by, or jealous of, or etc other feelings about other people. I.E. If they just left each other alone, most things would be fine. But humans don't like doing that, because again; ego. (And possibly a tinge of societal narcissism.) You have zero faith in humans ability to cope; but might I ask you without seeming to be attacking you, if perhaps that might be part of the problem here. You are not alone in your feelings, and so others act in a way to try to rectify each other in the guise of their opinions being holier than thou. Do you see now why I say Time and leaving each other alone would help solve this problem? I'm not saying it is going to resolve itself immediately or overnight in any way. It could take a long, long time. Weeks, months, even possibly years. What I AM saying, is that so long as people are constantly getting up in each others face and shoving their opinions down each others ears and throats; none of this will get any better, until it gets bloody. And then, it could still be argued that it never got better; it's just the killers are all that's left over. Not victors, killers. Because there is no victory in killing each other over opinions, and that's what this will turn into if people don't get over themselves, and leave each other the F alone. I mean shit, I'm guilty of it right now too by even replying to you to potentially help have you see things from my point of view; and so are you in reverse. Ideally, we'd all just stop typing and talking, and just mind our own damn business. But that's hard, because like it or not; some of us are actually right, and yes you and I could be wrong right now. The solution could be something that neither of us have even thought of yet. But that's still going to take TIME.

by Manu40 4y ago

lijogdfljk 4y ago

> The only solution to this is that everyone leave each other alone for a while and let them figure these things out for themselves by letting good ol father time teach us what is right and wrong. Time. It's one thing in the universe that might not be lying to us, at least all the time; unlike humans who can't stop lying in attempts to ego stroke over being right. Man, i couldn't disagree more - about this actually working, that is. This seems to assume that with time we will progress. I have seen the opposite enough to believe that we can, but also can just as likely regress. There are many out there that want to go back to removing rights from people based on skin tone, orientation, religion, gender, etc. Too frequently we reach a regression milestone that originally was projected to be the end of the regression, only to have us ramp up for the next regression milestone and fight over whether the next milestone is the end. I have zero faith in humans ability to cope here. I'm not sure on the solution, but to me it feels like we have a series of radio broadcasts which purposefully brainwash us and our only inclination is to turn the volume up, and make sure the neighbor can hear it through our windows. I am very, very pessimistic on our ability to dig out of this when we still willfully dug ourselves in to begin with.

_c5eq 4y ago
Well, 1. I never said it would happen quickly. Thing is, humans are rather impatient generally speaking. Especially when they think they are correct about something and must spread the enlightenment of their ego unto others. Time, doesn't wait on us. We wait on it. Here's an example: I play some MMO's now and then, and with the kind where people are fighting over territory in the game, all sorts of real world type politics ensue. Sure, it's just a game, but those are real people playing, meaning real brains doing things that they do; even in the real world. People who are actually morally upstanding act one way, and people who are actually terrible under their societal masks are... well... the other. Sometimes you get to deal with drama that is absolute bullshit, where the people who are less than morally upstanding cast out a bunch of lies, mistruths, and royal stinkers. What's the best way to deal with this? You just keep on doing what you do, provided it's not actually wrong, and leave them alone. What happens? Well, in my experience, the rest of the actually morally decent and upstanding people take notice of this, and then go on to cast out the liar. Now, you may want to say "But that's just a video game" or "That's just the internet". But I disagree entirely to the ends of the earth. Humans are humans, no matter how or where they communicate. The only difference is that some have less inhibitions to do certain things, much like how alcohol affects them. So the end result for me in these kinds of situations both IRL and online, is eventually people wise up. They eventually figure out that Manu40 isn't really the problem, and the real problem is the other asshole. (I say it that way, because I absolutely can be an asshole if I want to be.) I've seen this sort of things play out with myself, and others, so many times; that I cannot agree with you. I can see where you come from though. Which brings me to #2. 2. Generally speaking, most of those problems you speak about in regards to rights, religion, race, gender, sex, orientations, etc, etc... most of these problems stem from people not leaving each other the F alone. These all stem from people being overly concerned, or angered by, or jealous of, or etc other feelings about other people. I.E. If they just left each other alone, most things would be fine. But humans don't like doing that, because again; ego. (And possibly a tinge of societal narcissism.) You have zero faith in humans ability to cope; but might I ask you without seeming to be attacking you, if perhaps that might be part of the problem here. You are not alone in your feelings, and so others act in a way to try to rectify each other in the guise of their opinions being holier than thou. Do you see now why I say Time and leaving each other alone would help solve this problem? I'm not saying it is going to resolve itself immediately or overnight in any way. It could take a long, long time. Weeks, months, even possibly years. What I AM saying, is that so long as people are constantly getting up in each others face and shoving their opinions down each others ears and throats; none of this will get any better, until it gets bloody. And then, it could still be argued that it never got better; it's just the killers are all that's left over. Not victors, killers. Because there is no victory in killing each other over opinions, and that's what this will turn into if people don't get over themselves, and leave each other the F alone. I mean shit, I'm guilty of it right now too by even replying to you to potentially help have you see things from my point of view; and so are you in reverse. Ideally, we'd all just stop typing and talking, and just mind our own damn business. But that's hard, because like it or not; some of us are actually right, and yes you and I could be wrong right now. The solution could be something that neither of us have even thought of yet. But that's still going to take TIME.