4 ms·

The guy has admitted to cheating in the past, to make money. Basically he said that if his rating was above X, he could make more money streaming. Chess.com p

The guy has admitted to cheating in the past, to make money. Basically he said that if his rating was above X, he could make more money streaming. Chess.com put out a massive publication proving he cheated a hell of a lot more than "once or twice when he was younger". Because if he's not cheating, he's literally the prodigal child of AlphaZero and Bobby Fischer and should be crowned the GOAT immediately. Some of his play is unreal. There are more examples of him playing games with 100% accuracy against fellow GMs in the past few years than Magnus has had in his entire career IIRC. Some of his losses are against much lower rated opponents and somehow he manages to play some of the most accurate games against the highest rated opponents. Honestly, what needs to happen is chess needs to be replaced with Fischer Random, and matches played in significantly faster time controls so players don't have the time to have moves evaluated and transmitted to them.

xzel 4y ago
Or just delay the live stream instead? There’s a whole lot of hyperbole in your comments. He definitely cheated in online play as chess.com and Hans himself has said. Don’t think there’s been any proof of OTB cheating so far and his OTB play seems to be pretty realistic at this point.
- okamiueru 4y ago
  I don't understand the comments regarding delayed live stream. Splitting video feed, visually analysing a board from it, and feeding it feeding into an engine, are all rather straight forward things to do. And delayed feed for conspirators seems redundant.
  - maxbond 4y ago
    If the stream is delayed such that the previous move is being broadcast as the current move is played, than a cheater would need to communicate with their collaborators in duplex. A transmitter is a lot easier to detect than a receiver. The other alternative would be carrying the entire cheating apparatus on your person, which also presents a larger "cross section", if you will.
    - okamiueru 4y ago
      My argument was that you don't need a collaborator for online cheating. It is simple enough to automate everything from just the video feed, and would be undetectable by any software running on the machine. Use a hdmi splitter. Do image processing on one feed to register moves as they are played (regardless of delay), pass those moves into an engine, and show the output on a hidden display, vibrations to a butt plug, what have you. For OTB cheating, it becomes more complicated, but I'm sure a computer can be made small enough, and register inputs in any number of ways, while the output can be encoded vibrations.
      - maxbond 4y ago
        Oh I'm sure you could make such a device, but it's more to make it through security with.
moralestapia 4y ago
>proving he cheated [...] Sorry I missed the part where there was a proof. Could you pinpoint to it?
- John23832 4y ago
  https://www.chess.com/blog/CHESScom/hans-niemann-report https://www.chess.com/blog/CHESScom/hans-niemann-report
  - moralestapia 4y ago
    We present evidence in this report that Hans likely cheated online much more than his public statements suggest. However, while Hans has had a record-setting and remarkable rise in rating and strength, in our view there is a lack of concrete statistical evidence that he cheated in his game with Magnus or in any other over-the-board (“OTB”)—i.e., in-person—games. We are presenting our findings here and will cooperate with FIDE on any further investigation. ... Despite the public speculation on these questions, in our view, there is no direct evidence that proves Hans cheated at the September 4, 2022 game with Magnus, or proves that he has cheated in other OTB games in the past. Uh oh ... that doesn't look good for the defendants.
    - John23832 4y ago
      It doesn't matter. Nobody outright said that Hans cheated in the match (except for Hikaru, but that's commentary on youtube. He has the right to say that.) There's no basis to sue Chess.com. Their report is their stance. They sponsor online games and run their own platform, so they can remove Hans if they please. Magnus specifically didn't call Hans a cheater, he just said that he believes that he has cheated more that Hans admitted. Libel starts at "you are" not "I believe". There was a lot of pilling-on on the internet, but that's the nature of the internet. You can't sue the internet.
      - moralestapia 4y ago
        >Libel starts at "you are" not "I believe". Nah, libel triggers as soon as there's intent. And, surprise, intent can be "presumed". "I believe <person did X>" qualifies as libel, if untrue and it has a defamatory effect. The defamatory effect implies the intent. Honestly, if no definitive proof comes out of Hans cheating, Carlsen/chess.com are in trouble.

xzel 4y ago

Or just delay the live stream instead? There’s a whole lot of hyperbole in your comments. He definitely cheated in online play as chess.com and Hans himself has said. Don’t think there’s been any proof of OTB cheating so far and his OTB play seems to be pretty realistic at this point.

okamiueru 4y ago
I don't understand the comments regarding delayed live stream. Splitting video feed, visually analysing a board from it, and feeding it feeding into an engine, are all rather straight forward things to do. And delayed feed for conspirators seems redundant.
- maxbond 4y ago
  If the stream is delayed such that the previous move is being broadcast as the current move is played, than a cheater would need to communicate with their collaborators in duplex. A transmitter is a lot easier to detect than a receiver. The other alternative would be carrying the entire cheating apparatus on your person, which also presents a larger "cross section", if you will.
  - okamiueru 4y ago
    My argument was that you don't need a collaborator for online cheating. It is simple enough to automate everything from just the video feed, and would be undetectable by any software running on the machine. Use a hdmi splitter. Do image processing on one feed to register moves as they are played (regardless of delay), pass those moves into an engine, and show the output on a hidden display, vibrations to a butt plug, what have you. For OTB cheating, it becomes more complicated, but I'm sure a computer can be made small enough, and register inputs in any number of ways, while the output can be encoded vibrations.
    - maxbond 4y ago
      Oh I'm sure you could make such a device, but it's more to make it through security with.

moralestapia 4y ago

>proving he cheated [...] Sorry I missed the part where there was a proof. Could you pinpoint to it?

John23832 4y ago
https://www.chess.com/blog/CHESScom/hans-niemann-report https://www.chess.com/blog/CHESScom/hans-niemann-report
- moralestapia 4y ago
  We present evidence in this report that Hans likely cheated online much more than his public statements suggest. However, while Hans has had a record-setting and remarkable rise in rating and strength, in our view there is a lack of concrete statistical evidence that he cheated in his game with Magnus or in any other over-the-board (“OTB”)—i.e., in-person—games. We are presenting our findings here and will cooperate with FIDE on any further investigation. ... Despite the public speculation on these questions, in our view, there is no direct evidence that proves Hans cheated at the September 4, 2022 game with Magnus, or proves that he has cheated in other OTB games in the past. Uh oh ... that doesn't look good for the defendants.
  - John23832 4y ago
    It doesn't matter. Nobody outright said that Hans cheated in the match (except for Hikaru, but that's commentary on youtube. He has the right to say that.) There's no basis to sue Chess.com. Their report is their stance. They sponsor online games and run their own platform, so they can remove Hans if they please. Magnus specifically didn't call Hans a cheater, he just said that he believes that he has cheated more that Hans admitted. Libel starts at "you are" not "I believe". There was a lot of pilling-on on the internet, but that's the nature of the internet. You can't sue the internet.
    - moralestapia 4y ago
      >Libel starts at "you are" not "I believe". Nah, libel triggers as soon as there's intent. And, surprise, intent can be "presumed". "I believe <person did X>" qualifies as libel, if untrue and it has a defamatory effect. The defamatory effect implies the intent. Honestly, if no definitive proof comes out of Hans cheating, Carlsen/chess.com are in trouble.