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> Before iOS, to be fair. iOS didn't move the needle on open source, open bootloaders or anything gp mentioned. All iOS did was shift the balance of power from

> Before iOS, to be fair. iOS didn't move the needle on open source, open bootloaders or anything gp mentioned. All iOS did was shift the balance of power from telecom companies to Apple. Android was far more open than all that came before it: the source code was available,it used open source & contributed back, and brought a very "PC" mindset[1] to an industry that had always considered handsets to be appliances (save a few Nokia models in the Communicator line). 1. "Intents" that could be handled by any app of the users choosing was very much like "Open with..." on PCs. Even disregarding the open source stuff, Android was very much an open system just for that reason.

acdha 4y ago
Going back to the original comment, iOS improved the situation from the carrier having veto power over the entire experience to just the phone vendor and the App Store is more open than some of the earlier ones were (standard terms). It also doesn’t have the ad / activity data issues. Android can be more open but let’s not pretend that a lot of devices have locked bootloaders, too, and has never lived up to that “PC” model due to things like proprietary drivers and apps refusing to run on unlocked devices. The future is very much unsettled here and we need something like legislation to reverse that trend.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  > Android can be more open but let’s not pretend that a lot of devices have locked bootloaders Not all Android handsets have unlockable bootloaders - but all handsets with unlockable bootloaders run Android.
  - BlueTemplar 4y ago
    I think you meant to say can run Android ?
    - sangnoir 4y ago
      I realized my comment could the interpreted the way you did as I was writing it, and left it ambiguous (because that too is a good thing enabled by Android's openness) However, my main point was that outside of niche devices[1] that are rounding errors for smartphone consumer market share: the vast majority of devices sold with unlockable bootloaders already run Android: I'd guestimate > 95%. Looking at the list of devices supported by LineageOS (after enabling "Legacy Devices") is awe-inspiring. In the past, Samsung, Sony and Motorola had a solid lineup of unlockable devices. 1. I say this as someone who almost succumbed to the temptation of buying the Pine64 phone with the intention of contributing code
      - BlueTemplar 4y ago
        Today yes, but as Google has been tightening the screws on Android, and as Google becomes ever less welcome outside of USA, I expect this trend to reverse...
BoorishBears 4y ago
Apple is indeed the driving force that improved "targeted advertising, media consumption and unnecessary services subscription" compared to the old "Open the Web Browser and Owe 10 dollars" days by leveraging their iTunes userbase. Android would not even have launched without the iPhone breaking down those doors, you can hear it first hand from the Handspring/PalmOS/WebOS folks: https://youtu.be/b9_Vh9h3Ohw?t=1609 https://youtu.be/b9_Vh9h3Ohw?t=1609

acdha 4y ago

Going back to the original comment, iOS improved the situation from the carrier having veto power over the entire experience to just the phone vendor and the App Store is more open than some of the earlier ones were (standard terms). It also doesn’t have the ad / activity data issues. Android can be more open but let’s not pretend that a lot of devices have locked bootloaders, too, and has never lived up to that “PC” model due to things like proprietary drivers and apps refusing to run on unlocked devices. The future is very much unsettled here and we need something like legislation to reverse that trend.

sangnoir 4y ago
> Android can be more open but let’s not pretend that a lot of devices have locked bootloaders Not all Android handsets have unlockable bootloaders - but all handsets with unlockable bootloaders run Android.
- BlueTemplar 4y ago
  I think you meant to say can run Android ?
  - sangnoir 4y ago
    I realized my comment could the interpreted the way you did as I was writing it, and left it ambiguous (because that too is a good thing enabled by Android's openness) However, my main point was that outside of niche devices[1] that are rounding errors for smartphone consumer market share: the vast majority of devices sold with unlockable bootloaders already run Android: I'd guestimate > 95%. Looking at the list of devices supported by LineageOS (after enabling "Legacy Devices") is awe-inspiring. In the past, Samsung, Sony and Motorola had a solid lineup of unlockable devices. 1. I say this as someone who almost succumbed to the temptation of buying the Pine64 phone with the intention of contributing code
    - BlueTemplar 4y ago
      Today yes, but as Google has been tightening the screws on Android, and as Google becomes ever less welcome outside of USA, I expect this trend to reverse...

BoorishBears 4y ago

Apple is indeed the driving force that improved "targeted advertising, media consumption and unnecessary services subscription" compared to the old "Open the Web Browser and Owe 10 dollars" days by leveraging their iTunes userbase. Android would not even have launched without the iPhone breaking down those doors, you can hear it first hand from the Handspring/PalmOS/WebOS folks: https://youtu.be/b9_Vh9h3Ohw?t=1609 https://youtu.be/b9_Vh9h3Ohw?t=1609