5 ms·

How do we make them understand? Practically speaking.

nyc_data_geek1 4y ago
Superpac to direct donations to politicians found not to be engaging in this behavior? Because electorally there appear to be no repercussions at the ballot box, so speaking the only language they really understand, that of the almighty dollar?
Mikeb85 4y ago
Vote them out. It's the only way.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  That doesn't really work; there's little to link a defeat with any one specific issue in most cases, and the replacement isn't likely to get in for any one specific issue either.
- indigochill 4y ago
  Only to vote in the next round of special beneficiaries of this insider knowledge.
- _jal 4y ago
  That only works for bad actors in an otherwise good system. Systemic incentives tend to make idealists into insiders. You can blame people for being human if you want, but you will keep getting the same results.
- retzkek 4y ago
  Yes, punish them with a cushy private-sector job lobbying and/or on some corporate board, that'll teach 'em! This is not a game "we, the people" can win, any more than the pawns can win a chess tournament.
- soulofmischief 4y ago
  Why hasn't this basic democratic tool worked for the last 150 years? Is it because We The People are completely brainwashed by our industrial puppetmasters at this point? The needle moves from voting to education. But how do I educate an entire generation about what they should demand from a government?
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    > Why hasn't this basic democratic tool worked for the last 150 years? It's worked in many places that aren't the US.
    - soulofmischief 4y ago
      Yes, but the subject of the thread is Washington. And we're using American terminology such as We The People. Do I need to emphasize further that I'm talking about the US in particular?
      - Mikeb85 4y ago
        So figure out what's wrong with the US and why voting out incumbents works for other countries.
trelane 4y ago
The usual method is to vote them out. But, at least in the general election, the desire to vote the bum out is tempered by the need to keep them from gaining power.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  That's why you get involved in grassroots politics and change the make up of the parties themselves.
  - mandmandam 4y ago
    I'm not sure you are appreciating the sheer scale of the monster that is being fought, its capabilities, or the lengths that it goes to in order to keep its dominant position.
    - Mikeb85 4y ago
      I do but replacing the establishment needs to start somewhere.
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    That's been happening and I can't say I'm impressed with the results so far. Idealistic reformers are easily manipulated by cynical strategists and there's been a notable uptick in clown candidacies.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Normally, the correct answer here would be "through votes", but what do you do when both sides are doing the exact same thing? Voter turn out is getting lower and lower.
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  Voter turnout where? In the US it's been on a long term upward trend, although it arguably trails rather than leads events. This upcoming midterm election is expected to set a record, possibly matching turnout for presidential election years if current trends hold.

Superpac to direct donations to politicians found not to be engaging in this behavior? Because electorally there appear to be no repercussions at the ballot box, so speaking the only language they really understand, that of the almighty dollar?

Mikeb85 4y ago

Vote them out. It's the only way.

ceejayoz 4y ago
That doesn't really work; there's little to link a defeat with any one specific issue in most cases, and the replacement isn't likely to get in for any one specific issue either.
indigochill 4y ago
Only to vote in the next round of special beneficiaries of this insider knowledge.
_jal 4y ago
That only works for bad actors in an otherwise good system. Systemic incentives tend to make idealists into insiders. You can blame people for being human if you want, but you will keep getting the same results.
retzkek 4y ago
Yes, punish them with a cushy private-sector job lobbying and/or on some corporate board, that'll teach 'em! This is not a game "we, the people" can win, any more than the pawns can win a chess tournament.
soulofmischief 4y ago
Why hasn't this basic democratic tool worked for the last 150 years? Is it because We The People are completely brainwashed by our industrial puppetmasters at this point? The needle moves from voting to education. But how do I educate an entire generation about what they should demand from a government?
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  > Why hasn't this basic democratic tool worked for the last 150 years? It's worked in many places that aren't the US.
  - soulofmischief 4y ago
    Yes, but the subject of the thread is Washington. And we're using American terminology such as We The People. Do I need to emphasize further that I'm talking about the US in particular?
    - Mikeb85 4y ago
      So figure out what's wrong with the US and why voting out incumbents works for other countries.

trelane 4y ago

The usual method is to vote them out. But, at least in the general election, the desire to vote the bum out is tempered by the need to keep them from gaining power.

Mikeb85 4y ago
That's why you get involved in grassroots politics and change the make up of the parties themselves.
- mandmandam 4y ago
  I'm not sure you are appreciating the sheer scale of the monster that is being fought, its capabilities, or the lengths that it goes to in order to keep its dominant position.
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    I do but replacing the establishment needs to start somewhere.
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  That's been happening and I can't say I'm impressed with the results so far. Idealistic reformers are easily manipulated by cynical strategists and there's been a notable uptick in clown candidacies.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

Normally, the correct answer here would be "through votes", but what do you do when both sides are doing the exact same thing? Voter turn out is getting lower and lower.

anigbrowl 4y ago
Voter turnout where? In the US it's been on a long term upward trend, although it arguably trails rather than leads events. This upcoming midterm election is expected to set a record, possibly matching turnout for presidential election years if current trends hold.