7 ms·

It's simple. It's not their money. When you ask any SF Department to give you a budget for something, they will just hallucinate a number and pull it out of the

It's simple. It's not their money. When you ask any SF Department to give you a budget for something, they will just hallucinate a number and pull it out of their ass. Matt Haney (the State Senator) asked the Parks & Rec Department for an estimate of what would it cost to build the toilet (given that the hookups are already in place). They shrugged and pulled a figure of $1.7M out of their ass. And he just accepted that! Any normal person would have alarm bells go off in their head about such a large amount. Imagine you walk up to a street vendor and ask about a hot dog, and he responds with $1000. You'll laugh at his face and walk away. But the politicians in SF thought this was perfectly normal, and were getting ready to celebrate this event (until the Chronicle published the article that went viral). Kudos to Heather Knight... but it shouldn't have come this far! Building a whole house costs $1.7M. A public toilet? Definitely not even close. But hey, it's not their money, so who gives a shit, right? When I read cases like these, I feel like maybe the Republicans _are_ on to something: the government has become too big.

Raidion 4y ago
I feel like that's a terrible false equivalency. One of the most liberal cities in the country making a bad decision over one toilet is not nearly enough to say "the whole concept of American government is too big, better reconsider my political party"
dralley 4y ago
>When I read cases like these, I feel like maybe the Republicans _are_ on to something: the government has become too big. States like Texas, Louisiana, Florida, Kentucky etc. are absolutely not immune to corruption, I assure you. Small-government Republicanism hasn't truly existed in decades. However, that's not to diminish blame from cities like NY, Chicago, LA, SF. They need to get their flipping act together.
- onetokeoverthe 4y ago
- readthenotes1 4y ago
  At anyone in Texas and they will tell you that the government in Austin is too powerful and too corrupt...
feoren 4y ago
> maybe the Republicans _are_ on to something: the government has become too big. Except this is SF, not the Federal Government, and part of the reason the costs are so high is because PG&E is holding the city hostage. Republicans want giant corporations like PG&E to have more power to hold the government hostage and loot it. Why do you pay attention to what they say, rather than what they do? They never actually shrink the government; the bigger the government is, the more there is to loot, after all.
- 1024core 4y ago
  > and part of the reason the costs are so high is because PG&E is holding the city hostage. One thing you'll see when you live in SF long enough (20+ years here) is that they'll come up with all sorts of crazy excuses to justify bad behavior. Blaming PG&E for the $1.7M cost is bullshit.
  - Redoubts 4y ago
    It's why I left. You can't even fix this.
    - ROTMetro 4y ago
      I fled too. I miss so many aspects of the area, but the politics got so toxic when the libertarian hippies (let's all just get along) were replaced by authoritarian progressives (our way is the only truly good opinion, therefor the only opinion allowed, agree or be evil) and you could no longer have any policy discussions about anything.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    The nationalization of politics is a huge problem in blue states and cities—it totally eviscerates accountability. Pointing to republicans in Texas becomes a get out of jail free card to explain why a toilet costs $1.7 million in San Francisco. It’s particularly a problem with the bread and butter of state and local governance: education and policing. Why are cops in Minneapolis—a city that has two greens on the city council and no republicans—murdering black people? Must be Trump’s fault.
addicted 4y ago
> the government has become too big This framing means absolutely nothing, which is why politicians love it. It just sounds bad, without actually saying anything and pretty much any negative news headline can be accommodated by it. But it doesn’t actually shed any light on what the actual problems are. In this case, as you point out, there’s an agency issue. The people paying the money have no real representation in the effort to distribute that money. The problem has nothing to do with the size of the government.
aperson_hello 4y ago
Building a whole house in SF costs 1.7m. Building it in the Midwest or South costs 1/5 of that...
viridian 4y ago
You can toss up a stick built or modular house for like 100k these days, and they can build these prefabs near instantly, at a better quality than a lot of stuff built during the 80's/90's.

Raidion 4y ago

I feel like that's a terrible false equivalency. One of the most liberal cities in the country making a bad decision over one toilet is not nearly enough to say "the whole concept of American government is too big, better reconsider my political party"

dralley 4y ago

>When I read cases like these, I feel like maybe the Republicans _are_ on to something: the government has become too big. States like Texas, Louisiana, Florida, Kentucky etc. are absolutely not immune to corruption, I assure you. Small-government Republicanism hasn't truly existed in decades. However, that's not to diminish blame from cities like NY, Chicago, LA, SF. They need to get their flipping act together.

onetokeoverthe 4y ago
readthenotes1 4y ago
At anyone in Texas and they will tell you that the government in Austin is too powerful and too corrupt...

feoren 4y ago

> maybe the Republicans _are_ on to something: the government has become too big. Except this is SF, not the Federal Government, and part of the reason the costs are so high is because PG&E is holding the city hostage. Republicans want giant corporations like PG&E to have more power to hold the government hostage and loot it. Why do you pay attention to what they say, rather than what they do? They never actually shrink the government; the bigger the government is, the more there is to loot, after all.

1024core 4y ago
> and part of the reason the costs are so high is because PG&E is holding the city hostage. One thing you'll see when you live in SF long enough (20+ years here) is that they'll come up with all sorts of crazy excuses to justify bad behavior. Blaming PG&E for the $1.7M cost is bullshit.
- Redoubts 4y ago
  It's why I left. You can't even fix this.
  - ROTMetro 4y ago
    I fled too. I miss so many aspects of the area, but the politics got so toxic when the libertarian hippies (let's all just get along) were replaced by authoritarian progressives (our way is the only truly good opinion, therefor the only opinion allowed, agree or be evil) and you could no longer have any policy discussions about anything.
- rayiner 4y ago
  The nationalization of politics is a huge problem in blue states and cities—it totally eviscerates accountability. Pointing to republicans in Texas becomes a get out of jail free card to explain why a toilet costs $1.7 million in San Francisco. It’s particularly a problem with the bread and butter of state and local governance: education and policing. Why are cops in Minneapolis—a city that has two greens on the city council and no republicans—murdering black people? Must be Trump’s fault.

addicted 4y ago

> the government has become too big This framing means absolutely nothing, which is why politicians love it. It just sounds bad, without actually saying anything and pretty much any negative news headline can be accommodated by it. But it doesn’t actually shed any light on what the actual problems are. In this case, as you point out, there’s an agency issue. The people paying the money have no real representation in the effort to distribute that money. The problem has nothing to do with the size of the government.

aperson_hello 4y ago

Building a whole house in SF costs 1.7m. Building it in the Midwest or South costs 1/5 of that...

viridian 4y ago

You can toss up a stick built or modular house for like 100k these days, and they can build these prefabs near instantly, at a better quality than a lot of stuff built during the 80's/90's.