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So far I see everyone discussing search results. Recall that Amazon has been known to go to their competitor's factories and produce identical products with the

So far I see everyone discussing search results. Recall that Amazon has been known to go to their competitor's factories and produce identical products with their brand with an undercut price. In some cases they steal the design of and make crap versions of quality products that are selling well https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/04/amazon-accused-of-copying-camera-gearmaker-peak-designs-top-selling-item-.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/04/amazon-accused-of-copying-ca... Only they know how many people and companies they've hurt doing this. As far as I'm concerned the whole company is ethically bankrupt and rotten to the core starting with Bezos and can disappear from the Earth.

sokoloff 4y ago
In my supermarket, I can walk down an aisle and see 2-liter bottles of Pepsi products, then 2-liter bottles of Poland products, then 2-liter bottles of supermarket-brand products, then 2-liter bottles of Coke products. I strongly suspect the store brand products are manufactured at a bottling facility that also bottles other, name-brand sodas. I think that's all perfectly healthy competition and I'm glad that the super-market offers cut-rate, easily-substituted products on the shelves that they own. If that is good, how is what Amazon doing so different as to be bad?
- uni_rule 4y ago
  Because they aren't selling commodities/consumables. In the world of technology this is textbook anti competitive behavior. If a Chinese company were skimming R&D in the exact same way (as they have attracted some infamy for doing) the comments here would be pitchforks and fucking torches, what makes Amazon deserving of defense in the same situation?
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    A 2-liter bottle of soda seems to be literally and figuratively a consumable. (Similar to an Amazon Basics alkaline battery, which is a product I frequently buy.) I'm sure the supermarket looks over their sales data to understand which products might be compelling for their shoppers and where the store could introduce a store-branded product with a compelling positioning. I support them doing that as well.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > If that is good, how is what Amazon doing so different as to be bad? Being too big and powerful. I want to say here that if there were as many Amazons as there are grocery stores, it wouldn't be bad at all. Instead, since Kroger is about to buy Albertson's and consolidation in retail and services continues, grocery store brands should have the same questions to answer as Amazon. Hypothetically, assuming we had governments that were concerned about these issues as anything other than an opening to solicit cash from lobbyists or something to be promised during a campaign.
- jasec57322 4y ago
  In the UK most towns have at-least 2 large supermarkets in the town, and within 20 minute cycle-drive at-least another 3. In the UK, there is choice between: Asda, Tesco, Morrissons, Aldi, Lidl, Sainsbury's, Waitrose, M&S Who competes with Amazon? (Ebay?) The fundamental problem with Amazon is as with Standard Oil when they bought the railway companies. Amazon marketplace & Amazon warehouse/delivery/logistics should not be one company. There is a massive opportunity for a new marketplace to compete with Amazon; because Amazon has very little trust amongst both buyers and sellers alike - but where else is there?
  - pb7 4y ago
    >Who competes with Amazon? Every online store that ships to your doorstep.
cmeacham98 4y ago
You seem to imply Amazon is doing something underhanded, like paying off the factory to steal the competitor's design. However, that article doesn't substantiate that at all: all it says is that Amazon cloned their product and are selling it at a lower price, which I don't see a problem with.
legitster 4y ago
> Amazon has been known to go to their competitor's factories and produce identical products with their brand Counterpoint: if your whole business model is just doing contract manufacturing with Chinese manufacturers and make your money exclusively from Amazon, it wasn't a very good business plan to begin with. If you go to Amazon right now and search "Everyday Sling" you get dozens of white label knockoffs. It's hard to feel that Amazon is targeting products when they have already been genericized by manufacturers.
- kornhole 4y ago
  Even if a company designed, built, and marketed their own product in house, Amazon can take the business data they possess such as detailed sales flows, customer activity and supply chains to swoop in. This data normally unavailable to a competitor gives them the advantage.
  - 121789 4y ago
    So what? Why is this inherently bad?
  - legitster 4y ago
    Not true at all. Walmart has all of the sales data on every single product they sell. And anyone who wants to come to Walmart has to provide their sales data. Or you have Target that is movely heavily into generics right now. Nearly 1/3 of a Target store is stocked with their own brands. Retail is harsh and it is not unique to Amazon at all. The only difference is that Amazon has infinitely wide isles, and they host a swap meet outside the doors.
    - jasec57322 4y ago
      Who competes with Walmart in the USA? Here we have: Tesco, Asda, Morrisons, Sainsbury's, Aldi, Lidl, Waitrose, M&S. In the UK nearly all towns have at-least 2 supermarkets, and most towns have another 3 within a 20 minute cycle/drive. The fundamental problem with Amazon is as with Standard Oil. They have no competition, and they have no separation between their logistics/warehouse business & their marketplace. Thus, they are using their delivery business and warehouse arm (which in itself would not be sustainable) to ward-off competition. Just as when Standard Oil bought the railway companies.
jfengel 4y ago
What I don't get: why would Amazon bother? They're not a manufacturer. They're a marketplace. Sure, they have the data to do the manufacturing and undercut their suppliers, but it's not really their wheelhouse. Their suppliers already compete with each other to squeeze margins, so they can't be making all that much money on it. Why not just take their (hefty) cut of each sale and let others worry about the pain-in-the-ass of getting products built. Sure, Bezos and the company are rotten to the core, and would pawn their own mothers for an extra nickel. But doesn't it reach a point where the overhead of getting that money just dilutes what your company is actually good at, and makes you overall less healthy as a company?
- 55555 4y ago
  Americans are rich enough that they don't just buy the very cheapest thing. A sizable portion of the customers will click on "Amazon's choice" or similar and spend a few bucks extra. Consequently, the profit margins aren't that bad. The top spot for pretty much any product niche on Amazon is worth millions. If they can in-house just a few hundred, they've unlocked another billion dollars in value. You have a point, but they're trying to conquer the world. And frankly, when you own the marketplace, pulling it off is easy.
- fyzix 4y ago
  You're forgetting that these decisions are probably made by middle managers whose compensation/promotional prospects is tied to the success of a product launch.

sokoloff 4y ago

In my supermarket, I can walk down an aisle and see 2-liter bottles of Pepsi products, then 2-liter bottles of Poland products, then 2-liter bottles of supermarket-brand products, then 2-liter bottles of Coke products. I strongly suspect the store brand products are manufactured at a bottling facility that also bottles other, name-brand sodas. I think that's all perfectly healthy competition and I'm glad that the super-market offers cut-rate, easily-substituted products on the shelves that they own. If that is good, how is what Amazon doing so different as to be bad?

uni_rule 4y ago
Because they aren't selling commodities/consumables. In the world of technology this is textbook anti competitive behavior. If a Chinese company were skimming R&D in the exact same way (as they have attracted some infamy for doing) the comments here would be pitchforks and fucking torches, what makes Amazon deserving of defense in the same situation?
- sokoloff 4y ago
  A 2-liter bottle of soda seems to be literally and figuratively a consumable. (Similar to an Amazon Basics alkaline battery, which is a product I frequently buy.) I'm sure the supermarket looks over their sales data to understand which products might be compelling for their shoppers and where the store could introduce a store-branded product with a compelling positioning. I support them doing that as well.
pessimizer 4y ago
> If that is good, how is what Amazon doing so different as to be bad? Being too big and powerful. I want to say here that if there were as many Amazons as there are grocery stores, it wouldn't be bad at all. Instead, since Kroger is about to buy Albertson's and consolidation in retail and services continues, grocery store brands should have the same questions to answer as Amazon. Hypothetically, assuming we had governments that were concerned about these issues as anything other than an opening to solicit cash from lobbyists or something to be promised during a campaign.
jasec57322 4y ago
In the UK most towns have at-least 2 large supermarkets in the town, and within 20 minute cycle-drive at-least another 3. In the UK, there is choice between: Asda, Tesco, Morrissons, Aldi, Lidl, Sainsbury's, Waitrose, M&S Who competes with Amazon? (Ebay?) The fundamental problem with Amazon is as with Standard Oil when they bought the railway companies. Amazon marketplace & Amazon warehouse/delivery/logistics should not be one company. There is a massive opportunity for a new marketplace to compete with Amazon; because Amazon has very little trust amongst both buyers and sellers alike - but where else is there?
- pb7 4y ago
  >Who competes with Amazon? Every online store that ships to your doorstep.

cmeacham98 4y ago

You seem to imply Amazon is doing something underhanded, like paying off the factory to steal the competitor's design. However, that article doesn't substantiate that at all: all it says is that Amazon cloned their product and are selling it at a lower price, which I don't see a problem with.

legitster 4y ago

> Amazon has been known to go to their competitor's factories and produce identical products with their brand Counterpoint: if your whole business model is just doing contract manufacturing with Chinese manufacturers and make your money exclusively from Amazon, it wasn't a very good business plan to begin with. If you go to Amazon right now and search "Everyday Sling" you get dozens of white label knockoffs. It's hard to feel that Amazon is targeting products when they have already been genericized by manufacturers.

kornhole 4y ago
Even if a company designed, built, and marketed their own product in house, Amazon can take the business data they possess such as detailed sales flows, customer activity and supply chains to swoop in. This data normally unavailable to a competitor gives them the advantage.
- 121789 4y ago
  So what? Why is this inherently bad?
- legitster 4y ago
  Not true at all. Walmart has all of the sales data on every single product they sell. And anyone who wants to come to Walmart has to provide their sales data. Or you have Target that is movely heavily into generics right now. Nearly 1/3 of a Target store is stocked with their own brands. Retail is harsh and it is not unique to Amazon at all. The only difference is that Amazon has infinitely wide isles, and they host a swap meet outside the doors.
  - jasec57322 4y ago
    Who competes with Walmart in the USA? Here we have: Tesco, Asda, Morrisons, Sainsbury's, Aldi, Lidl, Waitrose, M&S. In the UK nearly all towns have at-least 2 supermarkets, and most towns have another 3 within a 20 minute cycle/drive. The fundamental problem with Amazon is as with Standard Oil. They have no competition, and they have no separation between their logistics/warehouse business & their marketplace. Thus, they are using their delivery business and warehouse arm (which in itself would not be sustainable) to ward-off competition. Just as when Standard Oil bought the railway companies.

jfengel 4y ago

What I don't get: why would Amazon bother? They're not a manufacturer. They're a marketplace. Sure, they have the data to do the manufacturing and undercut their suppliers, but it's not really their wheelhouse. Their suppliers already compete with each other to squeeze margins, so they can't be making all that much money on it. Why not just take their (hefty) cut of each sale and let others worry about the pain-in-the-ass of getting products built. Sure, Bezos and the company are rotten to the core, and would pawn their own mothers for an extra nickel. But doesn't it reach a point where the overhead of getting that money just dilutes what your company is actually good at, and makes you overall less healthy as a company?

55555 4y ago
Americans are rich enough that they don't just buy the very cheapest thing. A sizable portion of the customers will click on "Amazon's choice" or similar and spend a few bucks extra. Consequently, the profit margins aren't that bad. The top spot for pretty much any product niche on Amazon is worth millions. If they can in-house just a few hundred, they've unlocked another billion dollars in value. You have a point, but they're trying to conquer the world. And frankly, when you own the marketplace, pulling it off is easy.
fyzix 4y ago
You're forgetting that these decisions are probably made by middle managers whose compensation/promotional prospects is tied to the success of a product launch.