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SF is governed mostly by the people who live there. The core of the problem is that SF has spent decades investing in giving every person, block, and neighborh

by Kalium 4y ago

SF is governed mostly by the people who live there. The core of the problem is that SF has spent decades investing in giving every person, block, and neighborhood ways to participate in planning and changes. Generally this means giving out some kind of veto. So when the time comes to do something "Yes, but do it somewhere else" is the predominant response. To put it another way - everybody wants more shelters for the indigent, nobody wants one near where they live. The planning system is structured around enabling this.

aliqot 4y ago
Thank you for your perspective on this. In my locale, this type of thing is hard to imagine, we'll feed anybody who can hold a fork here. We have almost zero resources for indigents here, so homeless and others without are a bit rare. What are the resources (aside from this restroom) afforded to those without, near SFO? I'm tempted to think about this time when a local made a habit of feeding the deer, eventually they went from not being seen to no longer fearing people and would walk right up to the porch expecting sandwiches and RC Cola. Is it possible the abundance of resources exacerbates the situation where those seeking them arrive?
- Kalium 4y ago
  https://hsh.sfgov.org/ https://hsh.sfgov.org/ And that's just the resources from the city. There's a bunch of non-profits and a generally permissive public attitude. As to that question... it's a difficult one to answer. My understanding is that it's both difficult to study and politically sensitive.
  - aliqot 4y ago
    >it's both difficult to study and politically sensitive. Unfortunately I think you're right. A lot of delicate conversations fall into this category, and not just in SFO. As time passes my perspective shifts and I begin to realize our actions being at odds with our beliefs is not an ideologically linked trait, it is an innate quality of humanity. It is as if having the correct belief-system is sufficient and on par with actually living those values- the emotional reward is the same.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- didibus 4y ago
  I think we need to also keep things into perspective, there are an estimated 8k homeless in San Francisco, about 1% of its population. It seems most of those are caused by just poverty, not able to afford living expenses pushed people to the streets. Some amount of them are coming from other cities who get rid of their homeless by sending them to cities like San Francisco, but Sam Francisco also sometimes send homeless away similarly, this happens all over the US, as a kind of way to spread it out more evenly so it's not as visible in any given place. The fundamental issues of poverty are hard to solve, obviously, every country, city, nation, has always struggled with this. It's also a little more complicated due to some of the homeless also suffering from mental illness or drug addiction, that doesn't always make them qualified to even work, so it's like poverty mixed with what to do with the people that can't contribute to the work force as effectively. There's also the case of temperate climate, that's pretty attractive to people who live in the streets, but it's also convenient for a city, if homeless are dying of frost bites or heat, you might feel more compelled to give them shelter, but when outdoor tents suffice you might instead choose to shelter them outside like that and just keep moving them around so they don't stay to the same place too long for the neighbors to complain. I've heard San Francisco has a policy that when they give shelter, it has to be a full apartment with social service support, whereas New York and other cities go for more warehouse shelters, beds in a big room. The former is nicer to people that get to have access to them, but it hasn't scaled, whereas as the latter isn't as nice but has had more success actually sheltering them and hiding them from view I guess.
  - cloverich 4y ago
    Most homeless conversations center around those with drug addiction and mental health issues. Poverty as such is not the primary ingredient.
    - didibus 4y ago
      Some of the data seem to possibly indicate that poverty could in fact be the primary ingredient though. Also, rich families with kids that have mental issues or drug addictions are much less likely to end up in the streets, so it's definitely part of the formula. > Homelessness Rises Faster Where Rent Exceeds a Third of Income -- https://www.zillow.com/research/homelessness-rent-affordability-22247/?orgid=305&utm_att1=money https://www.zillow.com/research/homelessness-rent-affordabil... > According to responses from a 2019 survey of homeless people identified through the PIT count, a quarter said losing a job was the primary reason they became homeless -- https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/fixing-san-francisco-problems/sf-homelessness-data https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/fixing-san-francis... > When unhoused adults 61 and older were surveyed during the 2019 PIT count and asked why they had become homeless, 22 percent said it resulted from a job loss and 20 percent cited an eviction. “The fastest-growing segment (of the homeless) is 51 and older who are homeless for the first time,” -- https://sfseniorbeat.com/2021/06/22/people-over-age-51-remain-a-steady-sizable-portion-of-people-living-on-the-streets-and-in-the-shelters-of-san-francisco/ https://sfseniorbeat.com/2021/06/22/people-over-age-51-remai...

by Kalium 4y ago

aliqot 4y ago

Thank you for your perspective on this. In my locale, this type of thing is hard to imagine, we'll feed anybody who can hold a fork here. We have almost zero resources for indigents here, so homeless and others without are a bit rare. What are the resources (aside from this restroom) afforded to those without, near SFO? I'm tempted to think about this time when a local made a habit of feeding the deer, eventually they went from not being seen to no longer fearing people and would walk right up to the porch expecting sandwiches and RC Cola. Is it possible the abundance of resources exacerbates the situation where those seeking them arrive?

Kalium 4y ago
https://hsh.sfgov.org/ https://hsh.sfgov.org/ And that's just the resources from the city. There's a bunch of non-profits and a generally permissive public attitude. As to that question... it's a difficult one to answer. My understanding is that it's both difficult to study and politically sensitive.
- aliqot 4y ago
  >it's both difficult to study and politically sensitive. Unfortunately I think you're right. A lot of delicate conversations fall into this category, and not just in SFO. As time passes my perspective shifts and I begin to realize our actions being at odds with our beliefs is not an ideologically linked trait, it is an innate quality of humanity. It is as if having the correct belief-system is sufficient and on par with actually living those values- the emotional reward is the same.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
didibus 4y ago
I think we need to also keep things into perspective, there are an estimated 8k homeless in San Francisco, about 1% of its population. It seems most of those are caused by just poverty, not able to afford living expenses pushed people to the streets. Some amount of them are coming from other cities who get rid of their homeless by sending them to cities like San Francisco, but Sam Francisco also sometimes send homeless away similarly, this happens all over the US, as a kind of way to spread it out more evenly so it's not as visible in any given place. The fundamental issues of poverty are hard to solve, obviously, every country, city, nation, has always struggled with this. It's also a little more complicated due to some of the homeless also suffering from mental illness or drug addiction, that doesn't always make them qualified to even work, so it's like poverty mixed with what to do with the people that can't contribute to the work force as effectively. There's also the case of temperate climate, that's pretty attractive to people who live in the streets, but it's also convenient for a city, if homeless are dying of frost bites or heat, you might feel more compelled to give them shelter, but when outdoor tents suffice you might instead choose to shelter them outside like that and just keep moving them around so they don't stay to the same place too long for the neighbors to complain. I've heard San Francisco has a policy that when they give shelter, it has to be a full apartment with social service support, whereas New York and other cities go for more warehouse shelters, beds in a big room. The former is nicer to people that get to have access to them, but it hasn't scaled, whereas as the latter isn't as nice but has had more success actually sheltering them and hiding them from view I guess.
- cloverich 4y ago
  Most homeless conversations center around those with drug addiction and mental health issues. Poverty as such is not the primary ingredient.
  - didibus 4y ago
    Some of the data seem to possibly indicate that poverty could in fact be the primary ingredient though. Also, rich families with kids that have mental issues or drug addictions are much less likely to end up in the streets, so it's definitely part of the formula. > Homelessness Rises Faster Where Rent Exceeds a Third of Income -- https://www.zillow.com/research/homelessness-rent-affordability-22247/?orgid=305&utm_att1=money https://www.zillow.com/research/homelessness-rent-affordabil... > According to responses from a 2019 survey of homeless people identified through the PIT count, a quarter said losing a job was the primary reason they became homeless -- https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/fixing-san-francisco-problems/sf-homelessness-data https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/fixing-san-francis... > When unhoused adults 61 and older were surveyed during the 2019 PIT count and asked why they had become homeless, 22 percent said it resulted from a job loss and 20 percent cited an eviction. “The fastest-growing segment (of the homeless) is 51 and older who are homeless for the first time,” -- https://sfseniorbeat.com/2021/06/22/people-over-age-51-remain-a-steady-sizable-portion-of-people-living-on-the-streets-and-in-the-shelters-of-san-francisco/ https://sfseniorbeat.com/2021/06/22/people-over-age-51-remai...