5 ms·
This is a fantastic question. I can think of no situation where this behavior would be desireable, but then again IANAP
by fr0sty 15y ago
This is a fantastic question. I can think of no situation where this behavior would be desireable, but then again IANAP
- mikeash 15y agoIAAP (not commercial) and that sounds like an awful way to do things. An important aspect of cockpit resource management is to know who is controlling the airplanes, and part of that is always positively verbally transferring control, with confirmation. "I have the plane." "You have the plane." There is no situation where you want two people to both have input at the same time.
- flyingkiwi 15y agoIIRC, that was lesson 1, minute 2 (right after take-off). The previous commenter who said that wouldn't think to ask because it is akin to asking 'is the computer plugged in' is probably right (though the captain should have noticed it when he was observing). Serious design flaw, and tragic human error with devastating results. :(
- mikeash 15y agoI'm actually mildly surprised that it waited until you were in the air. I always brief that before takeoff whenever I take another pilot along. But yes, very basic stuff in any case, and amazing that they were not following this standard procedure.
- groby_b 15y agoSame experience. Pre-flight briefing with instructor: "When I say 'I have the plane', do NOT fly the plane". But then again, that's a VFR flight in decent weather. I'd imagine it's a bit easier to get stressed in the middle of the night in a storm over the Atlantic with electrical failures.
- mikeash 15y agoI think another major difference is that in most planes, you can feel when the other guy is screwing around with the controls because they're connected, so you can yell at him to stop doing whatever he's doing. It seems to me that it would be worthwhile to fake this in a pure fly-by-wire environment. The added cost and weight of a force-feedback system on the control sticks should be minimal compared to the aircraft as a whole.
- groby_b 15y agoWouldn't be surprised if that's one of the outcomes of this - you'll still have the ability to override the other stick, but you'll know you're overriding.
- flyingkiwi 15y agoI am a pilot (a small one but instrument rated) - there's no time EVER that you want that, and I am shocked the Airbus does not have a warning that says DUAL INPUT BEING RECEIVED. At the very least, it should give priority to the left seat controls. Was really shocked to read the article.
- nchaimov 15y agoIt does: there's an audible warning that says the words "DUAL INPUT" The English translation of the BEA's third interim report on the flight is available here: http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp090601e3.en/pdf/f-cp090601e3.en.pdf http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp090601e3.en/pdf/f-cp0906... It includes the full CVR transcript at the end, which shows that the dual input alarm activated five times.
- tankenmate 15y agoI think that part of the problem here is that the plane is so far out of trim and CRM has gone completely out of the window that psychologically at least the mental workload on the junior pilot has caused him to "freeze". Far worse, imaging a situation where one of the control inputs fails; i.e. constantly produces nose up input. Can one of the inputs be suspended / turned off?
- Florin_Andrei 15y agoThen link the sticks mechanically. Still, if the panicky guy is unconsciously trying to out-muscle you, well, then you reach over and punch him in the face. If even that fails... uh... I guess you're in deep deep doo-doo at that point.
- tcarnell 15y ago... so if there was a noise (intercom, radio, talking etc) and you didn't hear the announcement, that's it ,game over.
- crikli 15y agoI'm a pilot and that seems insane.