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Related reading from DHH (creator of Ruby on Rails, Basecamp, and Hey): https://world.hey.com/dhh/why-we-re-leaving-the-cloud-654b47e0 https://world.hey.com/dhh

Related reading from DHH (creator of Ruby on Rails, Basecamp, and Hey): https://world.hey.com/dhh/why-we-re-leaving-the-cloud-654b47e0 https://world.hey.com/dhh/why-we-re-leaving-the-cloud-654b47...

homarp 4y ago
discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33260061 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33260061 see also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33257204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33257204
turtlebits 4y ago
All of these posts never seem to talk about the operational overheard they're saving by using the cloud. 500k/year is a couple of engineers. And IME, at scale, Elasticsearch is a huge pain to self manage.
- tpetry 4y ago
  At that scale you also have engineers with the only purpose of managing AWS things.
- altdataseller 4y ago
  Self hosting has become very easy these days. Elasticsearch, specifically was a pain to self manage years ago. With modern versions, it has become incredibly stable, defaults have made more sense, and you now have modern tools like Kubernetes to make deploying/scaling easier too. The work required to self-host has improved in the past decade, and ppl who "default to the cloud" ignore this. I'm saying this as someone who manages a 50 TB cluster for a startup (which I know isn't a HUGE amount, but definitely not small either)
- DeathArrow 4y ago
  We had large Kubernetes deployments, + Elasticsearch + various databases, + monitoring tools managed by two guys.
slt2021 4y ago
cannot upvote this enough. DHH perfectly explained what is wrong with cloud. Constant gaslighting from cloud marketing about: capital costs, human cost, hardware cost, etc., while ignoring all negatives of cloud. Cloud computing is pure scam. you rent 1 vCPU and people often think this is as good as a real 1 hardware core, while in reality that physical core is being sold twice/three times to different customer. Your 1 vCPU is maybe 0.5-0.75 of a real hardware CPU, perhaps even less, depending on how greedy cloud provider is. It is almost like instead of driving your own car and making stable car payment - you decide to exclusively use Uber/Lyft to go around. Sounds good if you are in NYC/SF, but not so much outside of these perfect use cases. Also doesn't make sense if your primary job is pizza delivery, all your margins from delivering pizzas will just transfer to ride hailing company.

Related reading from DHH (creator of Ruby on Rails, Basecamp, and Hey): https://world.hey.com/dhh/why-we-re-leaving-the-cloud-654b47e0 https://world.hey.com/dhh/why-we-re-leaving-the-cloud-654b47...

homarp 4y ago

discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33260061 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33260061 see also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33257204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33257204

turtlebits 4y ago

All of these posts never seem to talk about the operational overheard they're saving by using the cloud. 500k/year is a couple of engineers. And IME, at scale, Elasticsearch is a huge pain to self manage.

tpetry 4y ago
At that scale you also have engineers with the only purpose of managing AWS things.
altdataseller 4y ago
Self hosting has become very easy these days. Elasticsearch, specifically was a pain to self manage years ago. With modern versions, it has become incredibly stable, defaults have made more sense, and you now have modern tools like Kubernetes to make deploying/scaling easier too. The work required to self-host has improved in the past decade, and ppl who "default to the cloud" ignore this. I'm saying this as someone who manages a 50 TB cluster for a startup (which I know isn't a HUGE amount, but definitely not small either)
DeathArrow 4y ago
We had large Kubernetes deployments, + Elasticsearch + various databases, + monitoring tools managed by two guys.

slt2021 4y ago

cannot upvote this enough. DHH perfectly explained what is wrong with cloud. Constant gaslighting from cloud marketing about: capital costs, human cost, hardware cost, etc., while ignoring all negatives of cloud. Cloud computing is pure scam. you rent 1 vCPU and people often think this is as good as a real 1 hardware core, while in reality that physical core is being sold twice/three times to different customer. Your 1 vCPU is maybe 0.5-0.75 of a real hardware CPU, perhaps even less, depending on how greedy cloud provider is. It is almost like instead of driving your own car and making stable car payment - you decide to exclusively use Uber/Lyft to go around. Sounds good if you are in NYC/SF, but not so much outside of these perfect use cases. Also doesn't make sense if your primary job is pizza delivery, all your margins from delivering pizzas will just transfer to ride hailing company.