3 ms·

N.b. not your average drill grinding jig.

mikewarot 4y ago
It is WWII era technology. Something capable of making existing holes slightly larger, and far more precise in their placement and size. You can find them used on Ebay for $5000 or so.
- formerly_proven 4y ago
  I'm assuming we're talking about a precision CNC machine tool and not a hunk of WWII-era cast iron with thou scales.
  - jbay808 4y ago
    These machines were perfected in the '60s and '70s. They are not only exceptional for their ability to make a hole perfectly located and perfectly sized, but also for making it perfectly round. Their ways being perfectly straight and perpendicular, and metallurgically stable, they are often bought just as a platform for converting into special tooling (for making air bearings, diffraction gratings, metrology and semiconductor equipment, and so on).
  - elteto 4y ago
    No, no, it clearly must be a WWII relic. That’s clearly why they would arrest these people. The guy on HN that has private knowledge about the indictment said you could find the same ones on ebay for $5k. /s
- WJW 4y ago
  Nukes are also WWII era technology, yet you would face some very critical questions if you tried to build one in your back yard. So are rocket engines and jet engines for that matter. This type of jig grinder is absolutely not comparable to the things you can find on Ebay, let alone for 5k.
  - jrumbut 4y ago
    Also, if they were model rocketry or ham radio enthusiasts who took things way, way, way too far they're still in trouble for all the oil smuggling and money laundering they did.
- pen2l 4y ago
  https://www.justice.gov/usao-ct/pr/european-nationals-and-entities-indicted-charges-violating-us-laws-their-attempt-export https://www.justice.gov/usao-ct/pr/european-nationals-and-en... specifically mentions a high-resolution jig. I wouldn't be surprised if in some cases just the tooling bits are around $5000, leaving aside the whole machine. For high-resolution machining, e.g. for lens fabrication, there's a whole science to drill bits, where special processes allow for achieving up to sub-nanometer surface roughness in parts. If they're making holes in hard metals they might be using titanium, diamond, or carbide drill bits that have crazy physical properties and cost a pretty penny. In some sense CNC machining is also a WWII era technology, but CNC machines from that era couldn't touch what modern-day machines can do and the repeatable precision with which they can do them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnIvhlKT7SY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnIvhlKT7SY While on the subject, this really is a fascinating field and it rules the world more than people might think. Consider that TSMC's core machines are made by ASML. Among the most important and specialized-IP parts in ASML machines are the huge lens which are made by Zeiss. Zeiss makes the lens with some next level machining equipment from companies around Heidelberg and Karlsruhe area. High-resolution machining isn't super known to the general public but it is so fascinating once you get to see the things they can pull off.
  - KennyBlanken 4y ago
    Yep. CNC machines of sufficient accuracy/precision are considered export-controlled munitions because they can be used to manufacture nuclear weapons components or nuclear fuel processing equipment, such as gas centrifuges). Their sale/ownership are registered with the government. Some of them have GPS chipsets or are otherwise set up to detect when they're being moved, and stop functioning to some degree until they're recommissioned by the manufacturer - though this is also abused by manufacturers to force a company to have to pay to re-commission a machine if it is re-sold, even if it doesn't qualify under munitions rules. Other things that are sometimes export-restricted include components that could be used in missiles like accelerometers, inertial navigation units and GPS chipsets if they're the sort that have sufficient accuracy or lack speed/acceleration/altitude lockouts.
    - 4y ago
- _jal 4y ago
  So, two things. First, if you find a modern high-precision multiaxis CnC on Ebay for $5K, snap it up, you saved six $digits. Second, dual-use tech is not about cost or sophistication. Did you know that Casio F91W watches get special attention from LEOs in many places? That isn't because a 1980s watch is super advanced. It is because they're popular bomb triggers. And a bonus thing. When I see something happen in the world that seems absurd, there are two alternatives. Maybe it really is absurd; stupid things happen. But the other possibility is maybe I am ignorant of important details. I personally learn a lot by entertaining the second option, even if it turns out the first was the case.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

It is WWII era technology. Something capable of making existing holes slightly larger, and far more precise in their placement and size. You can find them used on Ebay for $5000 or so.

formerly_proven 4y ago
I'm assuming we're talking about a precision CNC machine tool and not a hunk of WWII-era cast iron with thou scales.
- jbay808 4y ago
  These machines were perfected in the '60s and '70s. They are not only exceptional for their ability to make a hole perfectly located and perfectly sized, but also for making it perfectly round. Their ways being perfectly straight and perpendicular, and metallurgically stable, they are often bought just as a platform for converting into special tooling (for making air bearings, diffraction gratings, metrology and semiconductor equipment, and so on).
- elteto 4y ago
  No, no, it clearly must be a WWII relic. That’s clearly why they would arrest these people. The guy on HN that has private knowledge about the indictment said you could find the same ones on ebay for $5k. /s
WJW 4y ago
Nukes are also WWII era technology, yet you would face some very critical questions if you tried to build one in your back yard. So are rocket engines and jet engines for that matter. This type of jig grinder is absolutely not comparable to the things you can find on Ebay, let alone for 5k.
- jrumbut 4y ago
  Also, if they were model rocketry or ham radio enthusiasts who took things way, way, way too far they're still in trouble for all the oil smuggling and money laundering they did.
pen2l 4y ago
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ct/pr/european-nationals-and-entities-indicted-charges-violating-us-laws-their-attempt-export https://www.justice.gov/usao-ct/pr/european-nationals-and-en... specifically mentions a high-resolution jig. I wouldn't be surprised if in some cases just the tooling bits are around $5000, leaving aside the whole machine. For high-resolution machining, e.g. for lens fabrication, there's a whole science to drill bits, where special processes allow for achieving up to sub-nanometer surface roughness in parts. If they're making holes in hard metals they might be using titanium, diamond, or carbide drill bits that have crazy physical properties and cost a pretty penny. In some sense CNC machining is also a WWII era technology, but CNC machines from that era couldn't touch what modern-day machines can do and the repeatable precision with which they can do them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnIvhlKT7SY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnIvhlKT7SY While on the subject, this really is a fascinating field and it rules the world more than people might think. Consider that TSMC's core machines are made by ASML. Among the most important and specialized-IP parts in ASML machines are the huge lens which are made by Zeiss. Zeiss makes the lens with some next level machining equipment from companies around Heidelberg and Karlsruhe area. High-resolution machining isn't super known to the general public but it is so fascinating once you get to see the things they can pull off.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  Yep. CNC machines of sufficient accuracy/precision are considered export-controlled munitions because they can be used to manufacture nuclear weapons components or nuclear fuel processing equipment, such as gas centrifuges). Their sale/ownership are registered with the government. Some of them have GPS chipsets or are otherwise set up to detect when they're being moved, and stop functioning to some degree until they're recommissioned by the manufacturer - though this is also abused by manufacturers to force a company to have to pay to re-commission a machine if it is re-sold, even if it doesn't qualify under munitions rules. Other things that are sometimes export-restricted include components that could be used in missiles like accelerometers, inertial navigation units and GPS chipsets if they're the sort that have sufficient accuracy or lack speed/acceleration/altitude lockouts.
  - 4y ago
_jal 4y ago
So, two things. First, if you find a modern high-precision multiaxis CnC on Ebay for $5K, snap it up, you saved six $digits. Second, dual-use tech is not about cost or sophistication. Did you know that Casio F91W watches get special attention from LEOs in many places? That isn't because a 1980s watch is super advanced. It is because they're popular bomb triggers. And a bonus thing. When I see something happen in the world that seems absurd, there are two alternatives. Maybe it really is absurd; stupid things happen. But the other possibility is maybe I am ignorant of important details. I personally learn a lot by entertaining the second option, even if it turns out the first was the case.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]