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I live in a city that transitioned from diesel buses to battery buses. I've never driven in a bus with trolley wires, but am very happy with the current situati

I live in a city that transitioned from diesel buses to battery buses. I've never driven in a bus with trolley wires, but am very happy with the current situation. First of all some of the roads in our cities are being replaced. No problem for the buses, take a slight detour and inform the public that one of the bus station is not in service for the time being. Such a replacement and/or maintenance would require much more planning with trolley buses. Second, a big event was held in a weekend a couple of weeks ago, in a location not normally serviced by the buses. The roads near the event were closed off to all cars due to expected crowds, and visitors could get there on foot, by bike or by public transit (train or bus). Again, the buses extended their route to the entrance of the event, which would have been impossible with trolley buses. I also imagine that the a trolley wires are vulnerable to vandalism and damage due to storms.

panick21_ 4y ago
> Such a replacement and/or maintenance would require much more planning with trolley buses. Not really. All modern trolley you buy today can operate of line for enough for that not to be an issue. Unless you are renovating huge parts of roads at once its unlike to be a problem. You just drive to the next station without wire and reconnect. Also you're nice new roads will degrade much faster if you let large battery buses drive over them over and over. > Second, a big event In almost all cities such big events are always in the same places usually those places are pretty well connected with wires. This could potentially be a problem but not sure how often this would be hugely limiting. > I also imagine that the a trolley wires are vulnerable to vandalism and damage due to storms. Its pretty bad weather in Switzerland and I rarely hear about major problems. I never had to switch from a trolley to a non-trolley bus because of wire issues. If you have vandalism, a burning full battery bus is the most dangerous thing that can happen, becaues those buses once on fire are fucking terrifying. Granted it doesn't end often, but driving them long enough and its bound to happen sometime. The trolley wires are fairly high up and pretty sturdy. Not sure what kind of vandals would really try to break them. But sure, I support replacing diesel, I just think for at least the major lines, just use trolley. You can still do 50/50 if you have fears about the things you mentioned. Also, they are just operationally more efficient, never needing to charge, they can run in a constant loop. Some bi-articulated huge trolley here on the main line literally along the line 10-30 minutes frequency with a per bus capacity of 120 people. The go from 7am-ish to 1am-ish non-stop. You just can do that with battery electric buses unless you have many more buses with some buses constantly having to wait at the end station to recharge.
- theluketaylor 4y ago
  Trolly buses make so much sense to me with modern range extending batteries massively reducing the cost and complexity of hanging the gantries and wires. You can skip all the messy intersections and complex areas and just handle the long, simple stretches. I would much rather see cities embrace overhead wires in low cost runs compared with huge battery busses that need tons of recharging infrastructure. It also helps solve the climate conditioning issues in extreme weather locations, since both heating and cooling power coming from overhead wires solves range issues that arise from pure battery solutions. Cold winters and trying to keep a bus warm are range killers. I also want to see a battery range extended approach taken to electrifying existing rail routes that rely on diesel. The vast majority of the cost comes from a relatively small part of the total distance of the track run, from things like bridges too low for gantries and nearby structures impeding on the space required for the safe use of wiring. If batteries on the locomotive or electric multiple units can power the train for short distances the cost of electrifying the line can be slashed to a fraction of needing to power every inch of the run. Europe has electrified a huge portion of their rail network, but it's pretty rare here in north america and keeping the costs under control could make electrifying large chunks of the network feasible, especially east of the Mississippi.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    There are historical cases where there was no electricity for a train when the train would just speed up, and roll threw without power until the electricity restarted.
frosted-flakes 4y ago
Modern trolley buses can have battery range extenders that allow them to go off route.

panick21_ 4y ago

> Such a replacement and/or maintenance would require much more planning with trolley buses. Not really. All modern trolley you buy today can operate of line for enough for that not to be an issue. Unless you are renovating huge parts of roads at once its unlike to be a problem. You just drive to the next station without wire and reconnect. Also you're nice new roads will degrade much faster if you let large battery buses drive over them over and over. > Second, a big event In almost all cities such big events are always in the same places usually those places are pretty well connected with wires. This could potentially be a problem but not sure how often this would be hugely limiting. > I also imagine that the a trolley wires are vulnerable to vandalism and damage due to storms. Its pretty bad weather in Switzerland and I rarely hear about major problems. I never had to switch from a trolley to a non-trolley bus because of wire issues. If you have vandalism, a burning full battery bus is the most dangerous thing that can happen, becaues those buses once on fire are fucking terrifying. Granted it doesn't end often, but driving them long enough and its bound to happen sometime. The trolley wires are fairly high up and pretty sturdy. Not sure what kind of vandals would really try to break them. But sure, I support replacing diesel, I just think for at least the major lines, just use trolley. You can still do 50/50 if you have fears about the things you mentioned. Also, they are just operationally more efficient, never needing to charge, they can run in a constant loop. Some bi-articulated huge trolley here on the main line literally along the line 10-30 minutes frequency with a per bus capacity of 120 people. The go from 7am-ish to 1am-ish non-stop. You just can do that with battery electric buses unless you have many more buses with some buses constantly having to wait at the end station to recharge.

theluketaylor 4y ago
Trolly buses make so much sense to me with modern range extending batteries massively reducing the cost and complexity of hanging the gantries and wires. You can skip all the messy intersections and complex areas and just handle the long, simple stretches. I would much rather see cities embrace overhead wires in low cost runs compared with huge battery busses that need tons of recharging infrastructure. It also helps solve the climate conditioning issues in extreme weather locations, since both heating and cooling power coming from overhead wires solves range issues that arise from pure battery solutions. Cold winters and trying to keep a bus warm are range killers. I also want to see a battery range extended approach taken to electrifying existing rail routes that rely on diesel. The vast majority of the cost comes from a relatively small part of the total distance of the track run, from things like bridges too low for gantries and nearby structures impeding on the space required for the safe use of wiring. If batteries on the locomotive or electric multiple units can power the train for short distances the cost of electrifying the line can be slashed to a fraction of needing to power every inch of the run. Europe has electrified a huge portion of their rail network, but it's pretty rare here in north america and keeping the costs under control could make electrifying large chunks of the network feasible, especially east of the Mississippi.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  There are historical cases where there was no electricity for a train when the train would just speed up, and roll threw without power until the electricity restarted.

frosted-flakes 4y ago

Modern trolley buses can have battery range extenders that allow them to go off route.