4 ms·

> a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the naked resentment and hatred that seems to be all we have left in the USA. Do you think it is r

> a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the naked resentment and hatred that seems to be all we have left in the USA. Do you think it is real hatred or kayfabe?

fragmede 4y ago
Circa 2014, George Mitchell (D-Maine), Bob Dole (R-Kan.), Tom Daschle (D-S.D.) and Howard Baker (R-Tenn.) were known to be IRL friends. But that was back then. These days I think the hatred is more real than not.
- shanusmagnus 4y ago
  I think part of it is that we're in the political equivalent of "total war" -- if a politician were seen as being friendly with political opponents they would probably be destroyed in primaries by party rivals using it as red meat for how they were "soft" or an "x in name only" or some similar idiocy.
  - Macha 4y ago
    See for example the criticism of Ellen's friendship with George W Bush. Though interestingly the Obamas and Clintons don't get the same criticism for that, apart from occasionally being held up to suggest the centre left wing of the democrats isn't that different from the old bush-era republicans
    - lostlogin 4y ago
      Criticism of everything Obama related is next level compared to anything those others have had to deal with. I’m not in the US and all of the names you listed have politics I disagree with.
- themgt 4y ago
  As a counterpoint, a recently released via FOIA transcript of Obama to reporters in the last days of his presidency: Obama: Privately, that's not -- [Trump's] interactions with me are very different than they are with the public, or, for that matter, interactions with Barack Obama, the distant figure. He's very polite to me, and has not stopped being so. I think where he sees a vulnerability he goes after it and he takes advantage of it. A fair amount of it is still kayfabe to the pros (the problem is, it isn't to the public). https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rb6X.vIarX3o/v0 https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://assets.b...
aamoscodes 4y ago
I think it started as the latter, but the ideology kind’ve got away from itself and slowly manifested into reality as voters demanded more and more extreme positions from politicians to consider them “authentic.”
- esotericimpl 4y ago
  What does the UK and USA have in common? ah right, Australia's greatest export Rupert Murdoch. Right wing media will destroy the western world.
  - macintux 4y ago
    Steve Jobs to Murdoch: > The axis today is not liberal and conservative, the axis is constructive-destructive, and you've cast your lot with the destructive people. Fox has become an incredibly destructive force in our society.
mcphage 4y ago
I think with the older politicians, who have been in office for a while, it might be more kayfabe. But so many of those politicians have retired, and have been replaced with newer members who don't have personal relationships with other members, it's probably real hatred.
pclmulqdq 4y ago
It used to be the latter until the marks started getting elected. For the congressional boomers (Pelosi, McConnel et al), it's a grift. For the young crowd (AOC, Crenshaw, etc), it's a mission.
- pjc50 4y ago
  This - the problem with Truss was that she was a "true believer" in total garbage, so as soon as she tried to turn it into policy it blew up. Johnson's skill was in talking a lot and not delivering any policy.
  - d4rti 4y ago
    Let's also be clear the ideas were right-wing libertarian market fundamentalism, fomented through the shady 55 Tufton Street establishment, likely funded by American billionaire money. The market fundamentally rejecting the ideas of the market fundamentalists would be hilarious, if it wasn't happening to us.
SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
> Do you think it is real hatred or kayfabe? I think when one side believes (with good justification) that the other side tried to get them killed in the workplace, it's not kayfabe any more. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-ted-cruz-capitol-riot-b1799496.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

> a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the naked resentment and hatred that seems to be all we have left in the USA. Do you think it is real hatred or kayfabe?

fragmede 4y ago

Circa 2014, George Mitchell (D-Maine), Bob Dole (R-Kan.), Tom Daschle (D-S.D.) and Howard Baker (R-Tenn.) were known to be IRL friends. But that was back then. These days I think the hatred is more real than not.

shanusmagnus 4y ago
I think part of it is that we're in the political equivalent of "total war" -- if a politician were seen as being friendly with political opponents they would probably be destroyed in primaries by party rivals using it as red meat for how they were "soft" or an "x in name only" or some similar idiocy.
- Macha 4y ago
  See for example the criticism of Ellen's friendship with George W Bush. Though interestingly the Obamas and Clintons don't get the same criticism for that, apart from occasionally being held up to suggest the centre left wing of the democrats isn't that different from the old bush-era republicans
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    Criticism of everything Obama related is next level compared to anything those others have had to deal with. I’m not in the US and all of the names you listed have politics I disagree with.
themgt 4y ago
As a counterpoint, a recently released via FOIA transcript of Obama to reporters in the last days of his presidency: Obama: Privately, that's not -- [Trump's] interactions with me are very different than they are with the public, or, for that matter, interactions with Barack Obama, the distant figure. He's very polite to me, and has not stopped being so. I think where he sees a vulnerability he goes after it and he takes advantage of it. A fair amount of it is still kayfabe to the pros (the problem is, it isn't to the public). https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rb6X.vIarX3o/v0 https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://assets.b...

aamoscodes 4y ago

I think it started as the latter, but the ideology kind’ve got away from itself and slowly manifested into reality as voters demanded more and more extreme positions from politicians to consider them “authentic.”

esotericimpl 4y ago
What does the UK and USA have in common? ah right, Australia's greatest export Rupert Murdoch. Right wing media will destroy the western world.
- macintux 4y ago
  Steve Jobs to Murdoch: > The axis today is not liberal and conservative, the axis is constructive-destructive, and you've cast your lot with the destructive people. Fox has become an incredibly destructive force in our society.

mcphage 4y ago

I think with the older politicians, who have been in office for a while, it might be more kayfabe. But so many of those politicians have retired, and have been replaced with newer members who don't have personal relationships with other members, it's probably real hatred.

pclmulqdq 4y ago

It used to be the latter until the marks started getting elected. For the congressional boomers (Pelosi, McConnel et al), it's a grift. For the young crowd (AOC, Crenshaw, etc), it's a mission.

pjc50 4y ago
This - the problem with Truss was that she was a "true believer" in total garbage, so as soon as she tried to turn it into policy it blew up. Johnson's skill was in talking a lot and not delivering any policy.
- d4rti 4y ago
  Let's also be clear the ideas were right-wing libertarian market fundamentalism, fomented through the shady 55 Tufton Street establishment, likely funded by American billionaire money. The market fundamentally rejecting the ideas of the market fundamentalists would be hilarious, if it wasn't happening to us.

SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago

> Do you think it is real hatred or kayfabe? I think when one side believes (with good justification) that the other side tried to get them killed in the workplace, it's not kayfabe any more. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-ted-cruz-capitol-riot-b1799496.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...