6 ms·

An obvious fall guy. Rather shameful maneuver.

loloquwowndueo 4y ago
Gal.
raesene9 4y ago
From what I saw it was Truss and Kwarteng who caused the immediate issues, so not really a fall person, so much as the people who caused the problem leaving. They came up with the disasterous "mini-budget" which kicked it all off, they dismissed a senior treasury civil servant right before that, they didn't co-ordinate with the bank of england. Sure there are deeper problems that are not of their making but they made them a lot worse.
- easytiger 4y ago
  I think it's arguable that the minibudget overreaction wasn't remotely rational reporting or accurate as the cause of the gilt coupon drop. Certainly that day a load of people made money on them as it was very obvious they'd be fine. But in the cloud of noise that followed, with even the nations top economic journalists regurgitating nonsense... i doubt 0.5% of the adult population could even tell you what happened to any degree of accuracy. I'd argue she shouldn't have been choosen as she is weak in media terms, always has been, and was always going to be an easy target for the screaming minority of people. And yes, timing was unlucky, but a prudent leader would have seen that
  - raesene9 4y ago
    I'd say that all economics at a national level is about confidence. If the markets have confidence in what you're doing they don't react badly, if they don't have confidence in what you're doing, they react badly. By not laying the ground properly for their "mini-budget" they (Truss and Kwarteng) caused the markets to lose confidence in them, causing the problems that occurred. It doesn't really matter what most people thought of it, as they don't run the financial markets :)
    - easytiger 4y ago
      I think you are quite accurate in everything you say. I worked on an FX LP desk for nearly a decade. A happy place to be in times of turmoil. The more turmoil, the wider the spread, the more money we made. The mini gilt crisis made millions for my mates in fixed income. Confidence collapse is brilliant when you know others don't understand the markets. You sense the fantasy
biofox 4y ago
Do you think the pound would have plummeted regardless?
- andybak 4y ago
  Regardless of what? No mini-budget? A different mini-budget? A different PM? I think your question is too broad to answer.
  - bowsamic 4y ago
    - andybak 4y ago
      Don't be rude Your question is still too vague to answer. Obviously some mini-budgets would have caused the markets to react the same way and others wouldn't. I genuinely have no idea what you're asking but I'm now not sticking around to find out.
      - bowsamic 4y ago
bowsamic 4y ago
Perhaps for this ban on fracking vote, but the economic moves were her entire platform
glogla 4y ago
That is what I was thinking. Was she worse than Boris or is it just sexism? Edit: I'm sure objectively she was bad, but yeah.
- jl6 4y ago
  There are so many independent dimensions of badness going on here that it’s hard to compare and determine who was worse.
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  We've had two female Prime Ministers before her, one of whom was quite successful as a politician (bloody awful for the country though). It wasn't sexism, she is genuinely completely useless. Fractally shitty, in that if you examine any part of her stint in politics it is every bit as shitty and inept as the whole.
  - sanitycheck 4y ago
    It's been clear for a long time that she's totally incompetent, the part that mystifies me is why Tory MPs gave members the choice of her or Sunak. That outcome was also obvious, for obvious reasons. Some of the other candidates were at least unknown quantities and at least one even gave the impression of being not entirely mad.
    - mynameishere 4y ago
      No mystery whatsoever. It is just what I said. She was a fall guy. It couldn't have been more obvious.
- beardyw 4y ago
  Johnson was lazy, Truss crazy. Choose your poison.
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  Also, if you look at Scotland, we've had Nicola Sturgeon as First Minister for six years or so now (in which time she's seen four Tory PMs come and go), and she is so popular in the last-but-one Scottish Parliament elections her party got an overall majority, in a voting system designed to prevent any one party getting an overall majority.

Gal.

From what I saw it was Truss and Kwarteng who caused the immediate issues, so not really a fall person, so much as the people who caused the problem leaving. They came up with the disasterous "mini-budget" which kicked it all off, they dismissed a senior treasury civil servant right before that, they didn't co-ordinate with the bank of england. Sure there are deeper problems that are not of their making but they made them a lot worse.

easytiger 4y ago
I think it's arguable that the minibudget overreaction wasn't remotely rational reporting or accurate as the cause of the gilt coupon drop. Certainly that day a load of people made money on them as it was very obvious they'd be fine. But in the cloud of noise that followed, with even the nations top economic journalists regurgitating nonsense... i doubt 0.5% of the adult population could even tell you what happened to any degree of accuracy. I'd argue she shouldn't have been choosen as she is weak in media terms, always has been, and was always going to be an easy target for the screaming minority of people. And yes, timing was unlucky, but a prudent leader would have seen that
- raesene9 4y ago
  I'd say that all economics at a national level is about confidence. If the markets have confidence in what you're doing they don't react badly, if they don't have confidence in what you're doing, they react badly. By not laying the ground properly for their "mini-budget" they (Truss and Kwarteng) caused the markets to lose confidence in them, causing the problems that occurred. It doesn't really matter what most people thought of it, as they don't run the financial markets :)
  - easytiger 4y ago
    I think you are quite accurate in everything you say. I worked on an FX LP desk for nearly a decade. A happy place to be in times of turmoil. The more turmoil, the wider the spread, the more money we made. The mini gilt crisis made millions for my mates in fixed income. Confidence collapse is brilliant when you know others don't understand the markets. You sense the fantasy

biofox 4y ago

Do you think the pound would have plummeted regardless?

andybak 4y ago
Regardless of what? No mini-budget? A different mini-budget? A different PM? I think your question is too broad to answer.
- bowsamic 4y ago
  - andybak 4y ago
    Don't be rude Your question is still too vague to answer. Obviously some mini-budgets would have caused the markets to react the same way and others wouldn't. I genuinely have no idea what you're asking but I'm now not sticking around to find out.
    - bowsamic 4y ago

bowsamic 4y ago

Perhaps for this ban on fracking vote, but the economic moves were her entire platform

glogla 4y ago

That is what I was thinking. Was she worse than Boris or is it just sexism? Edit: I'm sure objectively she was bad, but yeah.

jl6 4y ago
There are so many independent dimensions of badness going on here that it’s hard to compare and determine who was worse.
Gordonjcp 4y ago
We've had two female Prime Ministers before her, one of whom was quite successful as a politician (bloody awful for the country though). It wasn't sexism, she is genuinely completely useless. Fractally shitty, in that if you examine any part of her stint in politics it is every bit as shitty and inept as the whole.
- sanitycheck 4y ago
  It's been clear for a long time that she's totally incompetent, the part that mystifies me is why Tory MPs gave members the choice of her or Sunak. That outcome was also obvious, for obvious reasons. Some of the other candidates were at least unknown quantities and at least one even gave the impression of being not entirely mad.
  - mynameishere 4y ago
    No mystery whatsoever. It is just what I said. She was a fall guy. It couldn't have been more obvious.
beardyw 4y ago
Johnson was lazy, Truss crazy. Choose your poison.
Gordonjcp 4y ago
Also, if you look at Scotland, we've had Nicola Sturgeon as First Minister for six years or so now (in which time she's seen four Tory PMs come and go), and she is so popular in the last-but-one Scottish Parliament elections her party got an overall majority, in a voting system designed to prevent any one party getting an overall majority.