4 ms·

What's consciousness have to do with impact on reality?

jqpabc123 4y ago
It's just one of the things that inanimate objects can't do --- they can't alter their surroundings --- certainly not "consciously".
- ben_w 4y ago
  Two problems there: (1) "Animate vs. inanimate" is a separate axis to «every defining feature you've just used for consciousness» vs. «the absence of that» (2) Inanimate AI can trivially alter their surroundings, all I have to do is say "Alexa, Badezimmer zehn Prozent". And this isn't an AI that I hold in high regard or consider to be conscious or anything like that — I have to ask three times while getting increasingly annoyed, because for some reason Alexa can't hear me properly and the first response is usually "Ich kann nicht Badezimmer auf Spotify finden" even though we don't have Spotify. Still alters it's surroundings, though.
- FeepingCreature 4y ago
  Inanimate objects can certainly alter their surroundings, or life could never have arisen.
  - jqpabc123 4y ago
    Are you sure they did this all by themselves --- no external forces and/or quantum physics involved?
    - ben_w 4y ago
      Why are those suddenly important? Silicon computers involve both, even when un-networked and alone in a cupboard.
      - jqpabc123 4y ago
        A lightening strike nearby once caused by DVD player to turn on. Does that make it "conscious"?
        ben_w 4y ago
        According to your definition: > It's just one of the things that inanimate objects can't do --- they can't alter their surroundings And given that you wrote that as a response to the question: > What's consciousness have to do with impact on reality? Then you must logically say that it is. Fortunately I don't have to claim such a belief for myself, because I said earlier: > nobody really knows what "consciousness" means (or if they are completely certain, then they also disagree with someone else who is also completely certain and/or deny the logical consequences of that definition). With specific emphasis on "deny the logical consequences of that definition". Ah well. Perhaps one day, we'll have an AI that can tell us what consciousness is without repeating all the mistakes and pitfalls that humans make when trying to philosophise about this topic.
        jqpabc123 4y ago
        The DVD player didn't *do* anything. It was all the result of the lightning strike.
        ben_w 4y ago
        If you wish to make that claim now, then you appear to be mixing your definitions in the middle of your argument.
        MarcoZavala 4y ago
    - FeepingCreature 4y ago
      Yes
- thfuran 4y ago
  So the sun is conscious?
  - jqpabc123 4y ago
    No but fire is --- it's always mean and destructive.

It's just one of the things that inanimate objects can't do --- they can't alter their surroundings --- certainly not "consciously".

ben_w 4y ago
Two problems there: (1) "Animate vs. inanimate" is a separate axis to «every defining feature you've just used for consciousness» vs. «the absence of that» (2) Inanimate AI can trivially alter their surroundings, all I have to do is say "Alexa, Badezimmer zehn Prozent". And this isn't an AI that I hold in high regard or consider to be conscious or anything like that — I have to ask three times while getting increasingly annoyed, because for some reason Alexa can't hear me properly and the first response is usually "Ich kann nicht Badezimmer auf Spotify finden" even though we don't have Spotify. Still alters it's surroundings, though.
FeepingCreature 4y ago
Inanimate objects can certainly alter their surroundings, or life could never have arisen.
- jqpabc123 4y ago
  Are you sure they did this all by themselves --- no external forces and/or quantum physics involved?
  - ben_w 4y ago
    Why are those suddenly important? Silicon computers involve both, even when un-networked and alone in a cupboard.
    - jqpabc123 4y ago
      A lightening strike nearby once caused by DVD player to turn on. Does that make it "conscious"?
      - ben_w 4y ago
        According to your definition: > It's just one of the things that inanimate objects can't do --- they can't alter their surroundings And given that you wrote that as a response to the question: > What's consciousness have to do with impact on reality? Then you must logically say that it is. Fortunately I don't have to claim such a belief for myself, because I said earlier: > nobody really knows what "consciousness" means (or if they are completely certain, then they also disagree with someone else who is also completely certain and/or deny the logical consequences of that definition). With specific emphasis on "deny the logical consequences of that definition". Ah well. Perhaps one day, we'll have an AI that can tell us what consciousness is without repeating all the mistakes and pitfalls that humans make when trying to philosophise about this topic.
        jqpabc123 4y ago
        The DVD player didn't *do* anything. It was all the result of the lightning strike.
        ben_w 4y ago
        If you wish to make that claim now, then you appear to be mixing your definitions in the middle of your argument.
        MarcoZavala 4y ago
  - FeepingCreature 4y ago
    Yes
thfuran 4y ago
So the sun is conscious?
- jqpabc123 4y ago
  No but fire is --- it's always mean and destructive.