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I mean many systems are pretty close. In Switzerland its mostly trains, trams and trolley buses. Yes some longer routes start are either not trolley or just go

I mean many systems are pretty close. In Switzerland its mostly trains, trams and trolley buses. Yes some longer routes start are either not trolley or just go off trolley lines later in the journey. You can get pretty damn near to all electric with trains, trams and trolley buses. The real difference is that now you can replace the diesel range extended trolley buses with battery range extended trolley buses. I would strongly recommend against buying into the battery bus hype! If you are a city now that considered going all electric, do it with trolley wires and then some buses with somewhat more battery to extend some lines. Buying a whole fleet of battery only buses causes a lot of issues. You still need a huge charging depot anyway. Its much worse for your roads. It causes much worse air pollution because those buses much heavier. The fire hazzard of electric buses, even with LFP, is pretty damn scary in a city. Trolley buses are also much saver in crashes because they are lighter. So for cities that today have diesel buses, please, just put up trolley wires on all your main corridors. Modern trolley systems are great, and because of the battery tech we don't need crazy trolley switch anymore. The trolley wires just reconnect on the next stop instead. Don't just buy fleets of battery buses that use up lithium that we could to better uses where less alternatives exists. Also while we are at it, its incredibly dumb that we don't have trolley wires on highways. This is tech we could have deployed 30 years ago.

derelicta 4y ago
For some reason I always assumed those battery-less electrical buses were super common abroad? They are everywhere in La Chaux-de-Fonds. But yeah absolutely at this point its a shame such solution hasnt been widely deployed yet :/
- panick21_ 4y ago
  There are a lot of trolley system in the world, not maybe as many as you would expect. However, very few in North America. The overwhelming majority of rail and buses in the US are not electrified. Usually they have some limited battery for very short range operations. In many places they also have an additional diesel generator, often just for operation and emergencies, not operation.
evandijk70 4y ago
I live in a city that transitioned from diesel buses to battery buses. I've never driven in a bus with trolley wires, but am very happy with the current situation. First of all some of the roads in our cities are being replaced. No problem for the buses, take a slight detour and inform the public that one of the bus station is not in service for the time being. Such a replacement and/or maintenance would require much more planning with trolley buses. Second, a big event was held in a weekend a couple of weeks ago, in a location not normally serviced by the buses. The roads near the event were closed off to all cars due to expected crowds, and visitors could get there on foot, by bike or by public transit (train or bus). Again, the buses extended their route to the entrance of the event, which would have been impossible with trolley buses. I also imagine that the a trolley wires are vulnerable to vandalism and damage due to storms.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  > Such a replacement and/or maintenance would require much more planning with trolley buses. Not really. All modern trolley you buy today can operate of line for enough for that not to be an issue. Unless you are renovating huge parts of roads at once its unlike to be a problem. You just drive to the next station without wire and reconnect. Also you're nice new roads will degrade much faster if you let large battery buses drive over them over and over. > Second, a big event In almost all cities such big events are always in the same places usually those places are pretty well connected with wires. This could potentially be a problem but not sure how often this would be hugely limiting. > I also imagine that the a trolley wires are vulnerable to vandalism and damage due to storms. Its pretty bad weather in Switzerland and I rarely hear about major problems. I never had to switch from a trolley to a non-trolley bus because of wire issues. If you have vandalism, a burning full battery bus is the most dangerous thing that can happen, becaues those buses once on fire are fucking terrifying. Granted it doesn't end often, but driving them long enough and its bound to happen sometime. The trolley wires are fairly high up and pretty sturdy. Not sure what kind of vandals would really try to break them. But sure, I support replacing diesel, I just think for at least the major lines, just use trolley. You can still do 50/50 if you have fears about the things you mentioned. Also, they are just operationally more efficient, never needing to charge, they can run in a constant loop. Some bi-articulated huge trolley here on the main line literally along the line 10-30 minutes frequency with a per bus capacity of 120 people. The go from 7am-ish to 1am-ish non-stop. You just can do that with battery electric buses unless you have many more buses with some buses constantly having to wait at the end station to recharge.

derelicta 4y ago

For some reason I always assumed those battery-less electrical buses were super common abroad? They are everywhere in La Chaux-de-Fonds. But yeah absolutely at this point its a shame such solution hasnt been widely deployed yet :/

panick21_ 4y ago
There are a lot of trolley system in the world, not maybe as many as you would expect. However, very few in North America. The overwhelming majority of rail and buses in the US are not electrified. Usually they have some limited battery for very short range operations. In many places they also have an additional diesel generator, often just for operation and emergencies, not operation.

evandijk70 4y ago

I live in a city that transitioned from diesel buses to battery buses. I've never driven in a bus with trolley wires, but am very happy with the current situation. First of all some of the roads in our cities are being replaced. No problem for the buses, take a slight detour and inform the public that one of the bus station is not in service for the time being. Such a replacement and/or maintenance would require much more planning with trolley buses. Second, a big event was held in a weekend a couple of weeks ago, in a location not normally serviced by the buses. The roads near the event were closed off to all cars due to expected crowds, and visitors could get there on foot, by bike or by public transit (train or bus). Again, the buses extended their route to the entrance of the event, which would have been impossible with trolley buses. I also imagine that the a trolley wires are vulnerable to vandalism and damage due to storms.

panick21_ 4y ago
> Such a replacement and/or maintenance would require much more planning with trolley buses. Not really. All modern trolley you buy today can operate of line for enough for that not to be an issue. Unless you are renovating huge parts of roads at once its unlike to be a problem. You just drive to the next station without wire and reconnect. Also you're nice new roads will degrade much faster if you let large battery buses drive over them over and over. > Second, a big event In almost all cities such big events are always in the same places usually those places are pretty well connected with wires. This could potentially be a problem but not sure how often this would be hugely limiting. > I also imagine that the a trolley wires are vulnerable to vandalism and damage due to storms. Its pretty bad weather in Switzerland and I rarely hear about major problems. I never had to switch from a trolley to a non-trolley bus because of wire issues. If you have vandalism, a burning full battery bus is the most dangerous thing that can happen, becaues those buses once on fire are fucking terrifying. Granted it doesn't end often, but driving them long enough and its bound to happen sometime. The trolley wires are fairly high up and pretty sturdy. Not sure what kind of vandals would really try to break them. But sure, I support replacing diesel, I just think for at least the major lines, just use trolley. You can still do 50/50 if you have fears about the things you mentioned. Also, they are just operationally more efficient, never needing to charge, they can run in a constant loop. Some bi-articulated huge trolley here on the main line literally along the line 10-30 minutes frequency with a per bus capacity of 120 people. The go from 7am-ish to 1am-ish non-stop. You just can do that with battery electric buses unless you have many more buses with some buses constantly having to wait at the end station to recharge.