4 ms·

In what dystopian country do you live where you don't automatically get the day off when calling in sick?

by Kiro 4y ago

camillomiller 4y ago
The country that thinks the world’s workplace culture is everywhere as f-up as theirs: the United States of America
cgrealy 4y ago
While I agree that encouraging a sick employee to work is all kinds of messed up, most countries impose a limit on sick days. At that point, you need to talk to the employee and figure out a solution.
- makeitdouble 4y ago
  The limit on sick days only matters for payroll decisions (what bucket will the day off fit in, paid leave or unpaid leave?). IME that's handled directly by the employee most of the time when they request the day off in the system. The manager gets involved at performance evaluation time, or if it has severe otherwise impacts (you're then asking the person to potentially leave), but I don't see the "figure out a solution" part of it. Asking someone to be less sick feels complicated.
  - cgrealy 4y ago
    It’s not just about “asking someone to be less sick”, you need to ascertain if there are other factors: are they over worked? is there a serious condition that you might need to support? Or conversely, is the sick leave legitimate? Some employees do abuse sick leave. Either way, a good manager can work with the employee to get a good outcome for both parties.
    - makeitdouble 4y ago
      I completely agree with you on the overworked part, though it's a delicate situation if you're their direct manager and have to rely on them to report how much work they are doing. It happens (a lot more than we're willing to accept I think), and it becomes more a discussion on management than on the employee per se. On the other parts, it might be a cultural difference: I'd expect all of those to be handled by HR. For instance, specific work time adjustments, additional rest time due to a physical or psychological condition, family issues etc. are delicate and potentially private matter that go beyond the manager's supervision. The manager needs to be notified of the resulting discussions, but I wouldn't expect them to get all the details directly from the employee for instance. That's also where the abuse of sick leave becomes a delicate issue to address at the manager level: companies have policies on how you justify the sick leave (doctor notes, medical bills etc.) or they let it open to the employee's judgement call. The former is clear cut, and abusing it means faking papers, so it's straight in HR territory. The later is more tricky, but I'd hate to be in a position where I have to hear the employee's story and decide if it's fake or not, potentially putting a the target on my back if the employee gets punished for actual issues I underestimated. It feels like a real shitty position to be in, I'd probably not bother confronting the employee except if they have literally dozens of sick leave days available.
      - cgrealy 4y ago
        > it might be a cultural difference: I'd expect all of those to be handled by HR. Possibly. Generally, I'd only involve HR as a last resort. Go to them for guidance, certainly, but in terms of dealing with an employee, I prefer to talk to them directly. > [abuse of sick leave] Completely agree that it's a delicate situation and you need to be very careful, or (in some countries depending on employment law) you could be open to a claim of wrongful dismissal. All of which is why I don't expect an AI to take over people management roles any time soon.
  - pjc50 4y ago
    Google "Bradford factor". Employers absolutely will ask employees to be less sick.
    - cgrealy 4y ago
      I'm sure they do. But my response to any employer who did that would be to start polishing my CV.
kvdveer 4y ago
Calling in sick regularly is often a sign of some other problem. Any competent manager will encourage an employee to either deal with that problem or arrange for help. In a dystopia, the manager will indeed ignore that problem and 'encourage' the worker to come to work. I believe this style of management can be replaced by an AI quite readily, and I believe this has already happened by rather trivial software (think the fake gig-workers for uber, lyft etc. Don't come in today? Your rating will drop tomorrow, along with your wage).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

In what dystopian country do you live where you don't automatically get the day off when calling in sick?

by Kiro 4y ago

In what dystopian country do you live where you don't automatically get the day off when calling in sick?

camillomiller 4y ago

The country that thinks the world’s workplace culture is everywhere as f-up as theirs: the United States of America

cgrealy 4y ago

While I agree that encouraging a sick employee to work is all kinds of messed up, most countries impose a limit on sick days. At that point, you need to talk to the employee and figure out a solution.

makeitdouble 4y ago
The limit on sick days only matters for payroll decisions (what bucket will the day off fit in, paid leave or unpaid leave?). IME that's handled directly by the employee most of the time when they request the day off in the system. The manager gets involved at performance evaluation time, or if it has severe otherwise impacts (you're then asking the person to potentially leave), but I don't see the "figure out a solution" part of it. Asking someone to be less sick feels complicated.
- cgrealy 4y ago
  It’s not just about “asking someone to be less sick”, you need to ascertain if there are other factors: are they over worked? is there a serious condition that you might need to support? Or conversely, is the sick leave legitimate? Some employees do abuse sick leave. Either way, a good manager can work with the employee to get a good outcome for both parties.
  - makeitdouble 4y ago
    I completely agree with you on the overworked part, though it's a delicate situation if you're their direct manager and have to rely on them to report how much work they are doing. It happens (a lot more than we're willing to accept I think), and it becomes more a discussion on management than on the employee per se. On the other parts, it might be a cultural difference: I'd expect all of those to be handled by HR. For instance, specific work time adjustments, additional rest time due to a physical or psychological condition, family issues etc. are delicate and potentially private matter that go beyond the manager's supervision. The manager needs to be notified of the resulting discussions, but I wouldn't expect them to get all the details directly from the employee for instance. That's also where the abuse of sick leave becomes a delicate issue to address at the manager level: companies have policies on how you justify the sick leave (doctor notes, medical bills etc.) or they let it open to the employee's judgement call. The former is clear cut, and abusing it means faking papers, so it's straight in HR territory. The later is more tricky, but I'd hate to be in a position where I have to hear the employee's story and decide if it's fake or not, potentially putting a the target on my back if the employee gets punished for actual issues I underestimated. It feels like a real shitty position to be in, I'd probably not bother confronting the employee except if they have literally dozens of sick leave days available.
    - cgrealy 4y ago
      > it might be a cultural difference: I'd expect all of those to be handled by HR. Possibly. Generally, I'd only involve HR as a last resort. Go to them for guidance, certainly, but in terms of dealing with an employee, I prefer to talk to them directly. > [abuse of sick leave] Completely agree that it's a delicate situation and you need to be very careful, or (in some countries depending on employment law) you could be open to a claim of wrongful dismissal. All of which is why I don't expect an AI to take over people management roles any time soon.
- pjc50 4y ago
  Google "Bradford factor". Employers absolutely will ask employees to be less sick.
  - cgrealy 4y ago
    I'm sure they do. But my response to any employer who did that would be to start polishing my CV.

kvdveer 4y ago

Calling in sick regularly is often a sign of some other problem. Any competent manager will encourage an employee to either deal with that problem or arrange for help. In a dystopia, the manager will indeed ignore that problem and 'encourage' the worker to come to work. I believe this style of management can be replaced by an AI quite readily, and I believe this has already happened by rather trivial software (think the fake gig-workers for uber, lyft etc. Don't come in today? Your rating will drop tomorrow, along with your wage).

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]