4 ms·

Classic Gemini excuse-making. Clearly these kids' problems are caused by $CELESTIAL_BODY being at $PLACE during $TIME; idk why they keep whining like this! But

by riwsky 4y ago

Classic Gemini excuse-making. Clearly these kids' problems are caused by $CELESTIAL_BODY being at $PLACE during $TIME; idk why they keep whining like this! But also: focus isn't distributed bimodally; ADHD is in some respects a matter of degree, not kind. Accordingly, many ADHD treatments also improve the abilities of people without ADHD—to ends both benign (the "secular literature" of productivity porn, which overlaps with behavioral ADHD management) and less-so (widespread stimulant abuse on college campuses). That leaves us with evaluating impairment to a student's quality of life. Is doing that by comparison to their classmates subjective? No—you can still make objective statements about comparative ability—but the ethical question of "do Gemini deserve a 12-month cognitive disadvantage compared to their grade-level peers?" is harder to answer than the medical "would this kid still be diagnosed if they were relatively older?". The article's argument is weaker for eliding it.

NoToP 4y ago
What's the difference between stimulant use with a prescription and stimulant use without? A priori why demonize one as abuse and accept the other as legitimate.
- riwsky 4y ago
  Honestly, I took it as an axiom so as to steel-man the article's argument; if there were no difference between prescribed and unprescribed use, any dismissal of concerns about overprescription would be trivial. But if I had to argue for it: I'd wager that unprescribed usage on college campuses is more likely to fall outside of medical guidelines (e.g. at late hours to pull all nighters, or in higher doses for recreational and euphoriant purposes). Whether or not one demonizes this as unethical, it should be uncontroversial to describe the concomitant increases in e.g. seizure risk, addiction, and other side effects as not-benign. It also advantages 1) lawbreakers who 2) can afford secondhand stimulants. Yes, this is also evidence towards "ok so don't legally require an rx to purchase these"—but such are the rules of the game students are playing, and the argument from personal freedom is strained when made in a competitive context.
- hinkley 4y ago
  What’s the difference between giving people with poor impulse control unfettered access to stimulants and giving them a set of rules that provide structure?
  - hirvi74 4y ago
    One is highly effective while the other is wishful thinking.
- corobo 4y ago
  The dosage probably. Prescription tries to get the lowest dose that effectively treats whereas you would probably buy based on value for money off your pal Gregg who knows the dark web. The dose will also go unchecked and unmonitored for effectiveness. Stimulation prescriptions come with requirements like blood pressure checks to make sure your heart isn't going to explode too.
fumeux_fume 4y ago
If you stopped at the first sentence, it would be a great comment. Not really sure what other points are trying to be made, but you got a chuckle right off the bat.
runlaszlorun 4y ago
> Classic Gemini excuse-making. you’re proud of yourself for that aren’t you? you part of New Nazi Nation or someshit?[1] ~ genx jesus

by riwsky 4y ago

NoToP 4y ago

What's the difference between stimulant use with a prescription and stimulant use without? A priori why demonize one as abuse and accept the other as legitimate.

riwsky 4y ago
Honestly, I took it as an axiom so as to steel-man the article's argument; if there were no difference between prescribed and unprescribed use, any dismissal of concerns about overprescription would be trivial. But if I had to argue for it: I'd wager that unprescribed usage on college campuses is more likely to fall outside of medical guidelines (e.g. at late hours to pull all nighters, or in higher doses for recreational and euphoriant purposes). Whether or not one demonizes this as unethical, it should be uncontroversial to describe the concomitant increases in e.g. seizure risk, addiction, and other side effects as not-benign. It also advantages 1) lawbreakers who 2) can afford secondhand stimulants. Yes, this is also evidence towards "ok so don't legally require an rx to purchase these"—but such are the rules of the game students are playing, and the argument from personal freedom is strained when made in a competitive context.
hinkley 4y ago
What’s the difference between giving people with poor impulse control unfettered access to stimulants and giving them a set of rules that provide structure?
- hirvi74 4y ago
  One is highly effective while the other is wishful thinking.
corobo 4y ago
The dosage probably. Prescription tries to get the lowest dose that effectively treats whereas you would probably buy based on value for money off your pal Gregg who knows the dark web. The dose will also go unchecked and unmonitored for effectiveness. Stimulation prescriptions come with requirements like blood pressure checks to make sure your heart isn't going to explode too.

fumeux_fume 4y ago

If you stopped at the first sentence, it would be a great comment. Not really sure what other points are trying to be made, but you got a chuckle right off the bat.

runlaszlorun 4y ago

> Classic Gemini excuse-making. you’re proud of yourself for that aren’t you? you part of New Nazi Nation or someshit?[1] ~ genx jesus