6 ms·

Psychiatry & neuroscience today are some of the closest equivalents to physicians applying leeches in the 16th century. Through no fault of their own. We, sim

by urthor 4y ago

Psychiatry & neuroscience today are some of the closest equivalents to physicians applying leeches in the 16th century. Through no fault of their own. We, simply, have legitimately very little knowledge of those fields of science. Our understanding of the human brain is just not there. So much of Psychiatry is throwing pills at symptoms after talking about your life. That's often the state of the art in the field. Genetic sequencing, and the ability to use genetic markers to diagnose illness, hopefully will change things. A cheap and effective diagnostic tool that isn't based on guesswork and "tell me your life story."

29athrowaway 4y ago
If a neuroscientist can explain a truly brain, they would be able to explain a much simpler thing such as a CPU or GPU. But, can they? No, they can't. Psychology is in great part pseudoscience. Lots of studies that are neither falsifiable or reproducible. Psychiatrists are the modern equivalent of barber surgeons, or trying to make fine jewelry with a chisel and a hammer.
- throwaway0asd 4y ago
  Diamonds are still cut with chisel and hammer. Most of your comment sounds like a bunch of logical fallacies.
111111101101 4y ago
Leeches actually work though and we still use them today.
- WhyCause 4y ago
  Cupping is probably a better analogy. Also, there was a long stretch of time there where we didn't use leeches, at least in part due to the stigma associated with the older practice.
Hnrobert42 4y ago
I agree. I have thought that in 200 years, people will look back at mental health care at this time with a mixture of horror and pity.
Spivak 4y ago
ADHD is actually one of the things that’s actually rigorously and quickly testable (assuming you’re willing to take self-reported effects / observations, you can’t read a number off a lab test) but it’s never done because it involves giving someone without any medical diagnosis a schedule 2 drug and we moralize that for some reason. You just give the person a stimulant and see what happens. If they get really awake, hyperactive, excited, anxious, shaky, hyperfocused, etc. then nope, if they get calm, content, or sleepy then yes. And it’s not like this is crazy in general, we do “just treat it and see if they get better” as the test for plenty of things. Nobody bats an eye when we do the same thing for depression, it’s super common for people who exhibit the symptoms to be asked to try a few antidepressants and see if they work. I get that some people abuse stimulants but they suuuuuuck. Life changing because they allow you to function but you will also curse them for it. The side effects are awful. So much so that I tried a bunch of non-stimulant medications until I found one that worked. Nobody who doesn’t have ADHD is gonna wanna regularly take adderall or vyvanse just because it would be miserable and that’s before the fact that they aren’t cheap. Edit: /rant Mental health is wild because smart and well meaning people designed a system that actively prevents people from being honest and getting help. Want to talk to your therapist about your suicidal thoughts, bulimia, or self-harm, nope. Not unless you want to take a mandatory grippy sock vacation away from your support network and get set back in school or lose your job all things famous for improving mental health. Wanna tell your psychologist that you think you might have ADHD because you were at a party, tried something and it made you felt way different than everyone else, haha drug seeker.
- zeroonetwothree 4y ago
  Many people with depression don’t improve on antidepressants so this seems of questionable accuracy.
  - Spivak 4y ago
    Both things are true. If you improve on them you have it, if you don’t then it doesn’t mean you don’t.
- bitexploder 4y ago
dang 4y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33270325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33270325.

by urthor 4y ago

29athrowaway 4y ago

If a neuroscientist can explain a truly brain, they would be able to explain a much simpler thing such as a CPU or GPU. But, can they? No, they can't. Psychology is in great part pseudoscience. Lots of studies that are neither falsifiable or reproducible. Psychiatrists are the modern equivalent of barber surgeons, or trying to make fine jewelry with a chisel and a hammer.

throwaway0asd 4y ago
Diamonds are still cut with chisel and hammer. Most of your comment sounds like a bunch of logical fallacies.

111111101101 4y ago

Leeches actually work though and we still use them today.

WhyCause 4y ago
Cupping is probably a better analogy. Also, there was a long stretch of time there where we didn't use leeches, at least in part due to the stigma associated with the older practice.

Hnrobert42 4y ago

I agree. I have thought that in 200 years, people will look back at mental health care at this time with a mixture of horror and pity.

Spivak 4y ago

ADHD is actually one of the things that’s actually rigorously and quickly testable (assuming you’re willing to take self-reported effects / observations, you can’t read a number off a lab test) but it’s never done because it involves giving someone without any medical diagnosis a schedule 2 drug and we moralize that for some reason. You just give the person a stimulant and see what happens. If they get really awake, hyperactive, excited, anxious, shaky, hyperfocused, etc. then nope, if they get calm, content, or sleepy then yes. And it’s not like this is crazy in general, we do “just treat it and see if they get better” as the test for plenty of things. Nobody bats an eye when we do the same thing for depression, it’s super common for people who exhibit the symptoms to be asked to try a few antidepressants and see if they work. I get that some people abuse stimulants but they suuuuuuck. Life changing because they allow you to function but you will also curse them for it. The side effects are awful. So much so that I tried a bunch of non-stimulant medications until I found one that worked. Nobody who doesn’t have ADHD is gonna wanna regularly take adderall or vyvanse just because it would be miserable and that’s before the fact that they aren’t cheap. Edit: /rant Mental health is wild because smart and well meaning people designed a system that actively prevents people from being honest and getting help. Want to talk to your therapist about your suicidal thoughts, bulimia, or self-harm, nope. Not unless you want to take a mandatory grippy sock vacation away from your support network and get set back in school or lose your job all things famous for improving mental health. Wanna tell your psychologist that you think you might have ADHD because you were at a party, tried something and it made you felt way different than everyone else, haha drug seeker.

zeroonetwothree 4y ago
Many people with depression don’t improve on antidepressants so this seems of questionable accuracy.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Both things are true. If you improve on them you have it, if you don’t then it doesn’t mean you don’t.
bitexploder 4y ago

dang 4y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33270325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33270325.