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PG&E in California already offers multiple time-of-use pricing options, including one just for EVs. They still can't keep the lights on during a heat wave beca

PG&E in California already offers multiple time-of-use pricing options, including one just for EVs. They still can't keep the lights on during a heat wave because people run their air conditioners and are willing to pay the peak rates to do so. Imagine the same level of demand, but with mass EV adoption on top of it, as well as the state planning to ban gas appliances and shift all the load for cooking and heating onto the grid. That is the future we are headed toward. Right now, EV ownership is largely restricted to homeowners who can install charging stations. Building more EV charging stations without beefing up the power grid, which will make it more practical for apartment dwellers to own electric cars, will result in even more demand for electricity at all times of the day. You can tinker with time-of-use rates all you want, but the only real solution is to have a much better power grid. People talk about EVs putting power back into the grid. Frankly I think that's a pipe dream in the near future. Our power companies are barely competent enough to run the grid without causing forest fires -- they aren't going to be capable of implementing that at the kind of scale that would make a difference anytime soon.

dzhiurgis 4y ago
> but the only real solution how about $1000 (10kwh @ EV prices) battery or so at every household?
- twblalock 4y ago
  That's pretty similar to this idea, which I already mentioned: > People talk about EVs putting power back into the grid. Frankly I think that's a pipe dream in the near future. Our power companies are barely competent enough to run the grid without causing forest fires -- they aren't going to be capable of implementing that at the kind of scale that would make a difference anytime soon. It's not realistic to expect a broken utility like PG&E to pull that off anytime soon. Most utilities in the United States are as bad as, or worse than, PG&E. Another aspect of this, which I am going through myself with my own EV charger install at my new house, is that many homes need retrofitting to be able to charge an EV or install one of those batteries. I need my electrical panel replaced. Every other house in my neighborhood was built at the same time by the same builder and is going to need a new panel too, if they haven't done it already -- and we aren't talking about old houses, these were built in the 1960s. For many homes, a charger or a battery will require $4k-6k of additional upgrades.
  - dzhiurgis 4y ago
    > many homes need retrofitting to be able to charge an EV FWIW 1kW for 8 hours is ~50km which is enough for most daily drives > I need my electrical panel replaced How much is that, really? Panel itself cost nothing, just some labour which I take is very expensive. You are improving your house tho and cost is likely negligible compared to car cost. FWIW it cost us ~$500 (eastern europe) to get 7kW charger purchased + installed. Which we never used cuz free municipal charger.
    - twblalock 4y ago
      The building permit for the panel replacement is $750. Just the permit. The panel install, including parts and labor, is around $4k. Add another $2k or so for the EV charger parts and labor. To replace the panel, my electrical company must make a special appointment to disconnect my house from the grid and reconnect it later the same day. The earliest appointment they were able to offer was one month away. There is no such thing as a cheap electrical panel upgrade, solar install, or battery install in the United States. Yes, I am improving the house, and I would probably need a new panel eventually anyway, but this still goes to show that there is a lot more involved than some people might think.
    - prmoustache 4y ago
      One could argue that nobody doing less than 50km a day should need a car. Except if living in a remote mountain village.

dzhiurgis 4y ago

> but the only real solution how about $1000 (10kwh @ EV prices) battery or so at every household?

twblalock 4y ago
That's pretty similar to this idea, which I already mentioned: > People talk about EVs putting power back into the grid. Frankly I think that's a pipe dream in the near future. Our power companies are barely competent enough to run the grid without causing forest fires -- they aren't going to be capable of implementing that at the kind of scale that would make a difference anytime soon. It's not realistic to expect a broken utility like PG&E to pull that off anytime soon. Most utilities in the United States are as bad as, or worse than, PG&E. Another aspect of this, which I am going through myself with my own EV charger install at my new house, is that many homes need retrofitting to be able to charge an EV or install one of those batteries. I need my electrical panel replaced. Every other house in my neighborhood was built at the same time by the same builder and is going to need a new panel too, if they haven't done it already -- and we aren't talking about old houses, these were built in the 1960s. For many homes, a charger or a battery will require $4k-6k of additional upgrades.
- dzhiurgis 4y ago
  > many homes need retrofitting to be able to charge an EV FWIW 1kW for 8 hours is ~50km which is enough for most daily drives > I need my electrical panel replaced How much is that, really? Panel itself cost nothing, just some labour which I take is very expensive. You are improving your house tho and cost is likely negligible compared to car cost. FWIW it cost us ~$500 (eastern europe) to get 7kW charger purchased + installed. Which we never used cuz free municipal charger.
  - twblalock 4y ago
    The building permit for the panel replacement is $750. Just the permit. The panel install, including parts and labor, is around $4k. Add another $2k or so for the EV charger parts and labor. To replace the panel, my electrical company must make a special appointment to disconnect my house from the grid and reconnect it later the same day. The earliest appointment they were able to offer was one month away. There is no such thing as a cheap electrical panel upgrade, solar install, or battery install in the United States. Yes, I am improving the house, and I would probably need a new panel eventually anyway, but this still goes to show that there is a lot more involved than some people might think.
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    One could argue that nobody doing less than 50km a day should need a car. Except if living in a remote mountain village.