5 ms·

Biden cripples China's semiconductor industry overnight

6 points by slothsinc 4y ago

slothsinc 4y ago
Any thoughts on why this news overall isn't getting more attention? And what about the threat of taking away citizenships, is that even legal?
- the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
  Is there a source on the loss of citizenship? Historically the US made it very hard to give up citizenship, I would be surprised if they for once made an easy way to relinquish it.
  - slothsinc 4y ago
    This seems to apply to Chinese-Americans specifically. Here are a couple of other sources: https://fortune.com/2022/10/13/chinese-americans-china-chip-export-ban-biden-us-semiconductors/ https://fortune.com/2022/10/13/chinese-americans-china-chip-... https://news.yahoo.com/bidens-export-curbs-place-many-233739729.html https://news.yahoo.com/bidens-export-curbs-place-many-233739...
    - slothsinc 4y ago
      Actually, the Yahoo story says: "The order applies to all U.S. citizens, green-card holders and foreign nationals who live in the U.S."
      - slothsinc 4y ago
        The Fortune headline seems misleading, but the article is behind a paywall so I couldn't read, so I'm not 100% sure.
    - mytailorisrich 4y ago
      No, the Fortune article correctly reports that people may be forced to choose. But there is no provision to strip people of citizenship in the new rules as the article you submitted implies.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  There is no threat of taking away citizenship. Citizens will be banned from certain jobs with severe penalties for breaches. Therefore execs with dualcitizenship might choose to give up US citizenship and keep their jobs instead. But no-one will take their US citizenship away. The article is highly misleading and misrepresents the situation.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - slothsinc 4y ago
    Do you have a source for this?
    - mytailorisrich 4y ago
      The text of the actual new rules and articles that covered it in reputable publications. For instance [1]: "For many senior executives at Chinese companies, the rule will likely force them to decide between their jobs and their U.S. citizenship or permanent resident status," This is the correct, accurate take on the issue, which is being distorted in the article you posted. No-one will be stripped from their US citizenship. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-executives-in-limbo-at-chinese-chip-companies-after-u-s-ban-11665912757 https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-executives-in-limbo-at...
- jk_el_ra 4y ago
AnimalMuppet 4y ago
That's a really slanted article, from the first sentence. I would take everything it says with a grain of salt. That said... I question whether this is actually within the president's authority. What did he actually order? (No, I don't care what this article says. What was the actual order?) Does he, constitutionally, have the authority to do that?
- jk_el_ra 4y ago
- floxy 4y ago
  Looks like the new rule is over at: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/10/13/2022-21658/implementation-of-additional-export-controls-certain-advanced-computing-and-semiconductor https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/10/13/2022-21...
- salawat 4y ago
  Yes. The President, as the Chief Executive, has the authority to manage anything w.r.t. foreign policy. This includes the imposition and management of tariffs (something not a lot of people realize Congress ceded to the executive), as well as imposing sanctions, or getting any of the basket of regulatory agencies operating under him to enact something tut sweet. As far as I am aware, he added Semiconductor fab equipment to the restricted export list. ASML can, as a result, not sell those items to chinese customers without facing mucho pain from the U.S. in terms of sanctions or other unpleasantness. Anyone with U.S. citizenship who violates that restriction is in a great deal of hot water if it is found out about, and they try to return/are in the States.
  - fspeech 4y ago
    ASML has explicitly said that the new rules don't affect them much because they don't have many US parts in non-EUV machines: https://www.reuters.com/technology/asml-reports-better-than-expected-q3-sales-strong-bookings-2022-10-19/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/asml-reports-better-than-...
- 4y ago
_int3_ 4y ago
> China has been stealing our tech for decades > EU has been stealing our tech. I read variants of this phrase few times lately and I want to know more. Please explain?

6 points by slothsinc 4y ago

Any thoughts on why this news overall isn't getting more attention? And what about the threat of taking away citizenships, is that even legal?

the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
Is there a source on the loss of citizenship? Historically the US made it very hard to give up citizenship, I would be surprised if they for once made an easy way to relinquish it.
- slothsinc 4y ago
  This seems to apply to Chinese-Americans specifically. Here are a couple of other sources: https://fortune.com/2022/10/13/chinese-americans-china-chip-export-ban-biden-us-semiconductors/ https://fortune.com/2022/10/13/chinese-americans-china-chip-... https://news.yahoo.com/bidens-export-curbs-place-many-233739729.html https://news.yahoo.com/bidens-export-curbs-place-many-233739...
  - slothsinc 4y ago
    Actually, the Yahoo story says: "The order applies to all U.S. citizens, green-card holders and foreign nationals who live in the U.S."
    - slothsinc 4y ago
      The Fortune headline seems misleading, but the article is behind a paywall so I couldn't read, so I'm not 100% sure.
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    No, the Fortune article correctly reports that people may be forced to choose. But there is no provision to strip people of citizenship in the new rules as the article you submitted implies.
mytailorisrich 4y ago
There is no threat of taking away citizenship. Citizens will be banned from certain jobs with severe penalties for breaches. Therefore execs with dualcitizenship might choose to give up US citizenship and keep their jobs instead. But no-one will take their US citizenship away. The article is highly misleading and misrepresents the situation.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- slothsinc 4y ago
  Do you have a source for this?
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    The text of the actual new rules and articles that covered it in reputable publications. For instance [1]: "For many senior executives at Chinese companies, the rule will likely force them to decide between their jobs and their U.S. citizenship or permanent resident status," This is the correct, accurate take on the issue, which is being distorted in the article you posted. No-one will be stripped from their US citizenship. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-executives-in-limbo-at-chinese-chip-companies-after-u-s-ban-11665912757 https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-executives-in-limbo-at...
jk_el_ra 4y ago

AnimalMuppet 4y ago

That's a really slanted article, from the first sentence. I would take everything it says with a grain of salt. That said... I question whether this is actually within the president's authority. What did he actually order? (No, I don't care what this article says. What was the actual order?) Does he, constitutionally, have the authority to do that?

jk_el_ra 4y ago
floxy 4y ago
Looks like the new rule is over at: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/10/13/2022-21658/implementation-of-additional-export-controls-certain-advanced-computing-and-semiconductor https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/10/13/2022-21...
salawat 4y ago
Yes. The President, as the Chief Executive, has the authority to manage anything w.r.t. foreign policy. This includes the imposition and management of tariffs (something not a lot of people realize Congress ceded to the executive), as well as imposing sanctions, or getting any of the basket of regulatory agencies operating under him to enact something tut sweet. As far as I am aware, he added Semiconductor fab equipment to the restricted export list. ASML can, as a result, not sell those items to chinese customers without facing mucho pain from the U.S. in terms of sanctions or other unpleasantness. Anyone with U.S. citizenship who violates that restriction is in a great deal of hot water if it is found out about, and they try to return/are in the States.
- fspeech 4y ago
  ASML has explicitly said that the new rules don't affect them much because they don't have many US parts in non-EUV machines: https://www.reuters.com/technology/asml-reports-better-than-expected-q3-sales-strong-bookings-2022-10-19/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/asml-reports-better-than-...
4y ago

_int3_ 4y ago

> China has been stealing our tech for decades > EU has been stealing our tech. I read variants of this phrase few times lately and I want to know more. Please explain?