4 ms·

I hear all kinds of narratives on this. According to this EPA article, US emissions are down 20% since 2005. https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-cha

I hear all kinds of narratives on this. According to this EPA article, US emissions are down 20% since 2005. https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-us-greenhouse-gas-emissions https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indica... Of course, global emissions are way up but we were warned 40 years ago about global coal use. https://youtu.be/Wp-WiNXH6hI https://youtu.be/Wp-WiNXH6hI

bombcar 4y ago
The US has continued to export emissions to other countries, as we export more and more manufacturing.
- melling 4y ago
  Yes, everyone knows this. China built the second largest economy, the second largest military, and 3x as much greenhouse gas on the back of US consumer spending. But hey, people on HN don’t like it when you point out stuff like this. I think people are hoping for plausible deniability. With half a century of warning, how did we end up in this climate mess? “ hey, let’s blame the oil companies“
  - ch4s3 4y ago
    Only 16% of US imports come from China. The majority of US imports are from nations with falling emissions. Obviously that isn't perfectly illustrative of exact shares of CO2 represented by those imports, but it's a useful proxy.
    - melling 4y ago
      China is responsible for 27% of total global emissions. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/05/06/chinas-greenhouse-gas-emissions-exceed-us-developed-world-report.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/05/06/chinas-greenhouse-gas-em... Some of it can be tied directly to US trade, and some of it can be tied to taking the all those profits and building internally. We exported all that manufacturing which used a lot of dirty coal The US is 11% of the total.
      - ch4s3 4y ago
        My point is that the US didn't "export all of its manufacturing" or all of its consumption emissions. Both statements are demonstrably false. Even still, of China's emissions only half are industrial. In the US manufacturing accounts for ~22% of emissions. If all of that manufacturing came back to the US, emissions would likely be lower, especially because we're phasing out coal. Don't get me wrong, it's a problem but the narrative that the US is only cutting emissions because of China's manufacturing is stupid.
        melling 4y ago
        Nowhere did I say we exported all of our manufacturing. China produces half of the world’s steel, for example. Most used internally. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_production https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_p... Largest cement producer in the world by far: https://www.statista.com/statistics/267364/world-cement-production-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/267364/world-cement-prod... All that industrialization…got China to 27% of total emissions. When the US released oil from its reserves it has to be sent overseas because of the lack of domestic refineries https://www.corporateknights.com/energy/is-the-sun-setting-on-americas-oil-refineries/ https://www.corporateknights.com/energy/is-the-sun-setting-o... Anyway, yes, part of the reason the US has dropped is because we have closed coal power plants in favor of natural gas, for example. But that’s another discussion
        ch4s3 4y ago
        I was responding mostly to the topic of the original comment.
- ch4s3 4y ago
  This isn't entirely true. The US still manufactures a lot of stuff, but does so more efficiently than in the past. The bulk of imported emissions other than electronics and a few minerals are in goods and raw materials that we trade around within NAFTA. A lot of our trade partners are also reducing emissions, even as they export to us. China is our largest partner in terms of our imports, but it only accounts for 16%, while Canada and Mexico represent 14% each.
  - landemva 4y ago
    Yep, the smelters for making engine blocks are in Mexico to pollute over there.
    - ch4s3 4y ago
      Mexico is still cutting emissions year over year, as I mentioned in another comment Mexico, Canada, and the US are all making CO2 cuts. So even if that particular emissions is moved around all of NAFTA is making emissions progress.

bombcar 4y ago

The US has continued to export emissions to other countries, as we export more and more manufacturing.

melling 4y ago
Yes, everyone knows this. China built the second largest economy, the second largest military, and 3x as much greenhouse gas on the back of US consumer spending. But hey, people on HN don’t like it when you point out stuff like this. I think people are hoping for plausible deniability. With half a century of warning, how did we end up in this climate mess? “ hey, let’s blame the oil companies“
- ch4s3 4y ago
  Only 16% of US imports come from China. The majority of US imports are from nations with falling emissions. Obviously that isn't perfectly illustrative of exact shares of CO2 represented by those imports, but it's a useful proxy.
  - melling 4y ago
    China is responsible for 27% of total global emissions. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/05/06/chinas-greenhouse-gas-emissions-exceed-us-developed-world-report.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/05/06/chinas-greenhouse-gas-em... Some of it can be tied directly to US trade, and some of it can be tied to taking the all those profits and building internally. We exported all that manufacturing which used a lot of dirty coal The US is 11% of the total.
    - ch4s3 4y ago
      My point is that the US didn't "export all of its manufacturing" or all of its consumption emissions. Both statements are demonstrably false. Even still, of China's emissions only half are industrial. In the US manufacturing accounts for ~22% of emissions. If all of that manufacturing came back to the US, emissions would likely be lower, especially because we're phasing out coal. Don't get me wrong, it's a problem but the narrative that the US is only cutting emissions because of China's manufacturing is stupid.
      - melling 4y ago
        Nowhere did I say we exported all of our manufacturing. China produces half of the world’s steel, for example. Most used internally. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_production https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_p... Largest cement producer in the world by far: https://www.statista.com/statistics/267364/world-cement-production-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/267364/world-cement-prod... All that industrialization…got China to 27% of total emissions. When the US released oil from its reserves it has to be sent overseas because of the lack of domestic refineries https://www.corporateknights.com/energy/is-the-sun-setting-on-americas-oil-refineries/ https://www.corporateknights.com/energy/is-the-sun-setting-o... Anyway, yes, part of the reason the US has dropped is because we have closed coal power plants in favor of natural gas, for example. But that’s another discussion
        ch4s3 4y ago
        I was responding mostly to the topic of the original comment.
ch4s3 4y ago
This isn't entirely true. The US still manufactures a lot of stuff, but does so more efficiently than in the past. The bulk of imported emissions other than electronics and a few minerals are in goods and raw materials that we trade around within NAFTA. A lot of our trade partners are also reducing emissions, even as they export to us. China is our largest partner in terms of our imports, but it only accounts for 16%, while Canada and Mexico represent 14% each.
- landemva 4y ago
  Yep, the smelters for making engine blocks are in Mexico to pollute over there.
  - ch4s3 4y ago
    Mexico is still cutting emissions year over year, as I mentioned in another comment Mexico, Canada, and the US are all making CO2 cuts. So even if that particular emissions is moved around all of NAFTA is making emissions progress.