3 ms·

Again i am absolutely against the russian aggression. But just imagine Merkel would say (in 2010) Goebbels is now a "Hero of Germany for "defending national id

by nix23 4y ago

Again i am absolutely against the russian aggression. But just imagine Merkel would say (in 2010) Goebbels is now a "Hero of Germany for "defending national ideas and battling for an independent German state"" ....national ideas by killing 130'000 Children's, Woman's and unarmed Men's.... It's not irrelevant if a massive amount of your population thinks your better then others and being a nazi is a good thing, and peoples from Donetsk are subhumans. Then they forbid to teach russian in schools, and russian speaking -> Ukrainian channel's had to switch language, same with newsletter's (i think that was 2019), really that's not nationalist bullshit?? But btw...are you also anti killing...because that's what Bandera and the Azov Regiment do and did. And just if you haven't read it, i am against the russian aggression. The problem with your example is that the thief and the madman are both equal bad for your country/house, you are just the buffer and the bleeding part between those two. It's called proxy-war.

zarqan 4y ago
> But just imagine Merkel would say (in 2010) Goebbels is now a "Hero of Germany for "defending national ideas and battling for an independent German state Germany is a poor example for your point. Both the German government and the German federal army still honour Col. Stauffenberg as a "role model" (Here is an article from a 2019 ceremony commemorating the attempted 20 July coup where they clearly state this: https://www.dbwv.de/aktuelle-themen/blickpunkt/beitrag/regierung-und-bundeswehr-gedenken-hitler-attentaetern/ https://www.dbwv.de/aktuelle-themen/blickpunkt/beitrag/regie... - it's in German, but you can use google translate). Note that Stauffenberg - despite his attempted coup - never repudiated fascism, antisemitism, or German militarism. Same goes for other well-known European politicians e.g. "father of the Austrian Republic" Karl Renner, an anti-semite who opposed the return of Jews even after the reestablishment of independent Austria post-WWII. In general, many interwar European "national role models" were unreconstructed racists who held abhorrent beliefs. > It's not irrelevant if a massive amount of your population thinks your better then others and being a nazi is a good thing, and peoples from Donetsk are subhumans. Then they forbid to teach russian in schools, and russian speaking -> Ukrainian channel's had to switch language, same with newsletter's (i think that was 2019), really that's not nationalist bullshit?? The law in question sets quotas for the use of Ukrainian in official media outlets & education, and mandates the use of Ukrainian as a national language. The UN produced a report on the law [1], and notes that "Many of the controversial points were subsequently addressed in the final version". The law does not ban Russian (or any other minority language) in any way. Many democratic states in the EU incl. France, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania have language policies which are arguably harsher & much more restrictive than anything implemented in Ukraine. In particular, France is especially aggressive in enforcing the use of French in public & commercial settings and actively issues fines to companies that do not abide by the language law. [1] https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2020-07/2019.09.11%20-%20Analytical%20Note%20-%20Language%20Law%20ENG.pdf https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2020-07/2019.09.1...
hbrn 4y ago
> It's called proxy-war. And what are the sides in this proxy war, US and Russia? Was it a proxy war when Crimea was annexed? Or when Russian military entered eastern Ukraine? Or when Georgia was invaded? Either US is surprisingly good at starting these proxy wars and Russia is incredibly stupid to be falling for the same trick over and over and over. Or maybe those are just land grabs by Russia, and US involvement here is tangential.
- nix23 4y ago
  >And what are the sides in this proxy war, US and Russia? Nato, but i am sure you already knew that. The east extension of nato is just good to justify a "strong" nato, to motivate Europeans to spend more money for the military...the very thing the US asked for, in the last decade.
  - hbrn 4y ago
    Overwhelming majority of Ukrainians were against joining NATO until Crimea was annexed. Finland and Sweden were against joining NATO until Russo-Ukrainian war. It sounds like NATO expansion is triggered by Russia being a terrible neighbor. Blaming it on US because they presumably wanted EU to spend more money is some americentrist mental gymnastics. Somehow US is all-powerful, bending the whole NATO to their will, and at the same time unable to convince Turkey to let Finland in. Reminds me one of the properties of fascism: the enemy is too strong and too weak at the same time.
    - darthrupert 4y ago
      This is exactly it. Europe spreads towards Nato for pure self-interest, to get additional protection against the worst pile of corruption on this world. If Russia could be trusted, Nato would never have been even formed.

by nix23 4y ago

zarqan 4y ago

> But just imagine Merkel would say (in 2010) Goebbels is now a "Hero of Germany for "defending national ideas and battling for an independent German state Germany is a poor example for your point. Both the German government and the German federal army still honour Col. Stauffenberg as a "role model" (Here is an article from a 2019 ceremony commemorating the attempted 20 July coup where they clearly state this: https://www.dbwv.de/aktuelle-themen/blickpunkt/beitrag/regierung-und-bundeswehr-gedenken-hitler-attentaetern/ https://www.dbwv.de/aktuelle-themen/blickpunkt/beitrag/regie... - it's in German, but you can use google translate). Note that Stauffenberg - despite his attempted coup - never repudiated fascism, antisemitism, or German militarism. Same goes for other well-known European politicians e.g. "father of the Austrian Republic" Karl Renner, an anti-semite who opposed the return of Jews even after the reestablishment of independent Austria post-WWII. In general, many interwar European "national role models" were unreconstructed racists who held abhorrent beliefs. > It's not irrelevant if a massive amount of your population thinks your better then others and being a nazi is a good thing, and peoples from Donetsk are subhumans. Then they forbid to teach russian in schools, and russian speaking -> Ukrainian channel's had to switch language, same with newsletter's (i think that was 2019), really that's not nationalist bullshit?? The law in question sets quotas for the use of Ukrainian in official media outlets & education, and mandates the use of Ukrainian as a national language. The UN produced a report on the law [1], and notes that "Many of the controversial points were subsequently addressed in the final version". The law does not ban Russian (or any other minority language) in any way. Many democratic states in the EU incl. France, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania have language policies which are arguably harsher & much more restrictive than anything implemented in Ukraine. In particular, France is especially aggressive in enforcing the use of French in public & commercial settings and actively issues fines to companies that do not abide by the language law. [1] https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2020-07/2019.09.11%20-%20Analytical%20Note%20-%20Language%20Law%20ENG.pdf https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2020-07/2019.09.1...

hbrn 4y ago

> It's called proxy-war. And what are the sides in this proxy war, US and Russia? Was it a proxy war when Crimea was annexed? Or when Russian military entered eastern Ukraine? Or when Georgia was invaded? Either US is surprisingly good at starting these proxy wars and Russia is incredibly stupid to be falling for the same trick over and over and over. Or maybe those are just land grabs by Russia, and US involvement here is tangential.

nix23 4y ago
>And what are the sides in this proxy war, US and Russia? Nato, but i am sure you already knew that. The east extension of nato is just good to justify a "strong" nato, to motivate Europeans to spend more money for the military...the very thing the US asked for, in the last decade.
- hbrn 4y ago
  Overwhelming majority of Ukrainians were against joining NATO until Crimea was annexed. Finland and Sweden were against joining NATO until Russo-Ukrainian war. It sounds like NATO expansion is triggered by Russia being a terrible neighbor. Blaming it on US because they presumably wanted EU to spend more money is some americentrist mental gymnastics. Somehow US is all-powerful, bending the whole NATO to their will, and at the same time unable to convince Turkey to let Finland in. Reminds me one of the properties of fascism: the enemy is too strong and too weak at the same time.
  - darthrupert 4y ago
    This is exactly it. Europe spreads towards Nato for pure self-interest, to get additional protection against the worst pile of corruption on this world. If Russia could be trusted, Nato would never have been even formed.