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That's apparently one big driver in the labor shortage. Childcare costs were so high that when everyone was home people realized the second job wasn't actually

That's apparently one big driver in the labor shortage. Childcare costs were so high that when everyone was home people realized the second job wasn't actually that useful and now there's one stay-at-home parent (seems weighted towards mothers[0]). [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/01/14/some-gender-disparities-widened-in-the-u-s-workforce-during-the-pandemic/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/01/14/some-gender...

lupire 4y ago
There is no labor shortage. There has been a labor glut since women left the home (and men didn't go home) in the 1970s, driving down wages to subsistence levels.
ShamelessC 4y ago
Your source doesnt support your narrative. > What accounts for the larger labor force withdrawals among less-educated women than men during the pandemic? It is complex but there seems to be a consensus that it partly reflects how women are overrepresented in certain health care, food preparation and personal service occupations that were sharply curtailed at the start of the pandemic. Although women overall are more likely than men to be able to work remotely, they are disproportionately employed in occupations that require them to work on-site and in close proximity to others. > It is less clear whether women’s parental roles and limited child care and schooling options have played a large role in forcing them to exit the labor market. The number of mothers and fathers in the labor force has declined in similar fashion over the past two years.
UncleOxidant 4y ago
Not having kids I didn't realize how insane childcare costs had gotten. Someone posted an article to a local reddit that says people are pre-registering unborn children for childcare because there are so few slots available. Others responses indicated that it's running around $1500 to $2000/month for childcare. Add in housing costs and no wonder people are hesitant to have kids now.
- cutthegrass2 4y ago
  this is the same in the UK. Childcare costs are abhorrent. As a sample of one, I have twins at ~2yrs old. We pay ~£3,000 per month between private nanny and private nursery. It's literally 2x our mortgage cost.
  - b800h 4y ago
    We were in exactly the same position in the UK, putting our twins into nursery from a very early age so my wife and I could continue our careers. In retrospect we regret it somewhat, as it clearly affected them negatively. But it has been positive financially downstream. At least you know you can afford to privately school them later on to make up for it.
    - cutthegrass2 4y ago
      Curious to know how you thought it effected them negatively. Wondering whether I can see any similar signs…
      - b800h 4y ago
        I was going to put it on here but thought better of it, tbh. Buzz me on Twitter? I'll leave my username in my profile for a while or until I hear from you.
- idontpost 4y ago
- ch4s3 4y ago
  Yeah its really insane. The child care space has been legislated into un-affordability. Between licensing requirements, staffing ratios, building codes, and a litany of other requirements its a service that can basically only be provided to upper middle class families if not HEAVILY subsidized.
  - 4y ago
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
Thanks for posting this - that's been my general theory regarding a big portion of the labor shortage, but I didn't have much info to back this up. If you are a mother making near minimum wage (which, these days, is around $15 in most major metros, regardless of what the actual law is), and you need to be on the job site for 8 hours/day, you're barely if even covering the cost of child care plus commuting and other job related costs. And as a tradeoff you get to have the stress of the job plus the joy of having someone else raise your kids. It just doesn't make sense. Also, importantly, your Earned Income Tax Credit will be reduced if you make more money (not 1-1, but just another reason why working in a low paying job doesn't really make sense if you have children and a spouse/partner that can support your family).
- civilized 4y ago
  This story also fits with the first figure in the article, which says that the % drop in labor participation has been biggest for less educated women.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  My wife stayed home for several years after we realized that nearly every dollar of post-tax, post-401K cashflow her job brought in went right out to childcare (and she had a well above US median household income, PhD-required job in science). She was happier; kids seemed happy; she's now back in the workforce at a similar role and happy with that transition back as well. (We did lose N years of 401K max contributions, but that seems totally worth it.)
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    The traditional role of grandparents is to care for the kids while the parents work.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      True. They're 700 miles away in our case, though...
    - 4y ago
hedora 4y ago
In addition to this, measuring from just before covid until now, the US GDP grew way above its normally sustainable pace. Fewer workers + fast economic growth = labor shortage.
jcadam 4y ago
My wife worked in daycare when we first got married. It is low-paying, high-stress work with high turnover. Parents drop off sick kids, kids with behavioral problems, kids in the middle of custody disputes, etc. I'll bet most of the workers went and found other jobs and won't be coming back.
chasd00 4y ago
this was my exact situation when my kids were small. We added up childcare expenses and it turned out we barely came out ahead with our two income household. The extra money was not worth the commutes and logistics of managing two jobs and daycare for two kids. My wife quit her job, we cut back a little bit, and she stayed at home for about 3 years. Once the kids were school age she went back to work ( she's a teacher ). She did lose some ground on her pension and raises but at this point, about 7 years later, the impact is negligible. I was pretty jealous of stay at home dads (I know two) and the things they were able to for their kids. My kids are older now and that ship has sailed for me.

lupire 4y ago

There is no labor shortage. There has been a labor glut since women left the home (and men didn't go home) in the 1970s, driving down wages to subsistence levels.

ShamelessC 4y ago

Your source doesnt support your narrative. > What accounts for the larger labor force withdrawals among less-educated women than men during the pandemic? It is complex but there seems to be a consensus that it partly reflects how women are overrepresented in certain health care, food preparation and personal service occupations that were sharply curtailed at the start of the pandemic. Although women overall are more likely than men to be able to work remotely, they are disproportionately employed in occupations that require them to work on-site and in close proximity to others. > It is less clear whether women’s parental roles and limited child care and schooling options have played a large role in forcing them to exit the labor market. The number of mothers and fathers in the labor force has declined in similar fashion over the past two years.

UncleOxidant 4y ago

Not having kids I didn't realize how insane childcare costs had gotten. Someone posted an article to a local reddit that says people are pre-registering unborn children for childcare because there are so few slots available. Others responses indicated that it's running around $1500 to $2000/month for childcare. Add in housing costs and no wonder people are hesitant to have kids now.

cutthegrass2 4y ago
this is the same in the UK. Childcare costs are abhorrent. As a sample of one, I have twins at ~2yrs old. We pay ~£3,000 per month between private nanny and private nursery. It's literally 2x our mortgage cost.
- b800h 4y ago
  We were in exactly the same position in the UK, putting our twins into nursery from a very early age so my wife and I could continue our careers. In retrospect we regret it somewhat, as it clearly affected them negatively. But it has been positive financially downstream. At least you know you can afford to privately school them later on to make up for it.
  - cutthegrass2 4y ago
    Curious to know how you thought it effected them negatively. Wondering whether I can see any similar signs…
    - b800h 4y ago
      I was going to put it on here but thought better of it, tbh. Buzz me on Twitter? I'll leave my username in my profile for a while or until I hear from you.
idontpost 4y ago
ch4s3 4y ago
Yeah its really insane. The child care space has been legislated into un-affordability. Between licensing requirements, staffing ratios, building codes, and a litany of other requirements its a service that can basically only be provided to upper middle class families if not HEAVILY subsidized.
- 4y ago

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

Thanks for posting this - that's been my general theory regarding a big portion of the labor shortage, but I didn't have much info to back this up. If you are a mother making near minimum wage (which, these days, is around $15 in most major metros, regardless of what the actual law is), and you need to be on the job site for 8 hours/day, you're barely if even covering the cost of child care plus commuting and other job related costs. And as a tradeoff you get to have the stress of the job plus the joy of having someone else raise your kids. It just doesn't make sense. Also, importantly, your Earned Income Tax Credit will be reduced if you make more money (not 1-1, but just another reason why working in a low paying job doesn't really make sense if you have children and a spouse/partner that can support your family).

civilized 4y ago
This story also fits with the first figure in the article, which says that the % drop in labor participation has been biggest for less educated women.
sokoloff 4y ago
My wife stayed home for several years after we realized that nearly every dollar of post-tax, post-401K cashflow her job brought in went right out to childcare (and she had a well above US median household income, PhD-required job in science). She was happier; kids seemed happy; she's now back in the workforce at a similar role and happy with that transition back as well. (We did lose N years of 401K max contributions, but that seems totally worth it.)
- WalterBright 4y ago
  The traditional role of grandparents is to care for the kids while the parents work.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    True. They're 700 miles away in our case, though...
  - 4y ago

hedora 4y ago

In addition to this, measuring from just before covid until now, the US GDP grew way above its normally sustainable pace. Fewer workers + fast economic growth = labor shortage.

jcadam 4y ago

My wife worked in daycare when we first got married. It is low-paying, high-stress work with high turnover. Parents drop off sick kids, kids with behavioral problems, kids in the middle of custody disputes, etc. I'll bet most of the workers went and found other jobs and won't be coming back.

chasd00 4y ago

this was my exact situation when my kids were small. We added up childcare expenses and it turned out we barely came out ahead with our two income household. The extra money was not worth the commutes and logistics of managing two jobs and daycare for two kids. My wife quit her job, we cut back a little bit, and she stayed at home for about 3 years. Once the kids were school age she went back to work ( she's a teacher ). She did lose some ground on her pension and raises but at this point, about 7 years later, the impact is negligible. I was pretty jealous of stay at home dads (I know two) and the things they were able to for their kids. My kids are older now and that ship has sailed for me.