3 ms·

There were a lot of areas in the 60s where a road trip would require substantial advance planning to go well. (I guess people should never have done them back

by mint2 4y ago

There were a lot of areas in the 60s where a road trip would require substantial advance planning to go well. (I guess people should never have done them back then…even although that helped pave the way for making it easy today. But this isn’t my main point, it’s an aside) And this doesn’t even touch on the way just a few decades ago many ethnic groups had to plan extensively for road trips for their safety. Nowadays it seems like we’re on the path to WallE’s world where even a modest amount of planning is unthinkable for some. What has google maps done to our perspective? Although I have hope, it used to be single use plastic bottles were the complete standard because no one wanted to plan slightly ahead. Now substantial numbers of people fill up a reusable bottle in advance like good amateur logisticians.

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
In other words BEVs are crappier product for higher price. Thanks for nothing.
- Kirby64 4y ago
  You could make the same argument that ICE vehicles are crappier products, because you have to stop at an external station every week or 2 to fill it with gas. Something you never need to a BEV outside of roadtrips if you have charging at home. It's just a different use-case. Whether folks are aware is largely an education issue, not an inherent issue with BEVs. It's like complaining a truck doesn't have 3 rows of seats and can't fit 7 people.
  - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
    I live in apartment. I can't charge at home and together with me many other people.
    - Kirby64 4y ago
      Different use-case. I wouldn't argue that anyone that lives in an apartment own an EV with the current state of domestic apartment-based EV charging, honestly, unless they are REALLY certain they're OK with the hassle of using a DCFC to charge their car. That said, this is not the fault of the car manufacturer. It's the fault of a national lack of urgency regarding charging infrastructure. I'd support some sort of mandate to require Level 2 charging be included in apartments (or some sort of heavy federal subsidy) to accelerate the transition. Cause obviously apartments are going to be a thing forever... so we need to change parking structures to accommodate EVs.
      - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
        This is not a different use case. This is just an example how pushing for BEVs makes no sense. It does not work and it does not scale. BEVs are pushed only by nonsensical policies of people who lives in gated communities and have no idea about real world. BEVs are surviving on subsidies and are dead end technology without future. Like 3DTV. It used be hype too, now nobody knows that it even existed.
- mint2 4y ago
  <Sees Poor planning and foot dragging of a state in adopting a new tech, blames new tech> <Sees person buy a triangle and try to shove it in a square hole, thinks triangles are inherently bad> <sees climate change, doesn’t care because part of solution requires some temporary minor inconveniences during transition. Hashtag not worth it> Using a car intended for short daily commutes for a road trip is going to be awkward in a state that has not really been trying to build ev infrastructure. If they don’t do many trips in laggard states, Renting a Tesla or even an ice would work on that rare occasion. If they do many trips then they bought the wrong car. Even with that non-road-trip car, it would have been okay on most long trips in California because the state is actually encouraging evs. Expecting a new tech to have the same infrastructure as the old from the get go or otherwise abandoning it would have left us with horses. Stables existed gas stations did not. Evs are so much quieter, Much more pleasant to drive. They produce less “horse manure and smells” so their adoption is inevitable. Although the worst manures ice cars make are unfortunately not plainly visible, the visible ones are enough to drive people away from them.
  - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
    This is just painting a lipstick on a pig. BEVs are expensive cars with expensive fuel (no most people won't be able to charge at home) and miniscule range. However they will be forced down the throats of consumers regardless of their inferiority. It is like going from cars back to horses and pretending that it is better.
    - mint2 4y ago
      Okay so computers revolutionized society. cars did too. So did air travel. All started as expensive niche items most people could not afford. Look at them now. They became cheap and widespread. They all had naysayers and doubters in their time. With the logic in those comments, all of those should have been abandoned. No computers, no cars, no airplanes. All too expensive initially! No one is going to force you to like EVs. If they aren’t your thing it’s okay. But the writing is on the wall, they are definitely horses, and on the way out. They’re loud and stink especially when cold. They require annoying expensive trips to fuel up and require more maintenance. (Side note, of the handful of times my credit card has been stolen, it’s usually been a gas station skimmer.) Unless on a road trip, Evs don’t required one to go to fueling stations. And you’re right some people don’t have charging at home, but most people rightly see that as only a matter of time.

by mint2 4y ago

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago

In other words BEVs are crappier product for higher price. Thanks for nothing.

Kirby64 4y ago
You could make the same argument that ICE vehicles are crappier products, because you have to stop at an external station every week or 2 to fill it with gas. Something you never need to a BEV outside of roadtrips if you have charging at home. It's just a different use-case. Whether folks are aware is largely an education issue, not an inherent issue with BEVs. It's like complaining a truck doesn't have 3 rows of seats and can't fit 7 people.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  I live in apartment. I can't charge at home and together with me many other people.
  - Kirby64 4y ago
    Different use-case. I wouldn't argue that anyone that lives in an apartment own an EV with the current state of domestic apartment-based EV charging, honestly, unless they are REALLY certain they're OK with the hassle of using a DCFC to charge their car. That said, this is not the fault of the car manufacturer. It's the fault of a national lack of urgency regarding charging infrastructure. I'd support some sort of mandate to require Level 2 charging be included in apartments (or some sort of heavy federal subsidy) to accelerate the transition. Cause obviously apartments are going to be a thing forever... so we need to change parking structures to accommodate EVs.
    - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
      This is not a different use case. This is just an example how pushing for BEVs makes no sense. It does not work and it does not scale. BEVs are pushed only by nonsensical policies of people who lives in gated communities and have no idea about real world. BEVs are surviving on subsidies and are dead end technology without future. Like 3DTV. It used be hype too, now nobody knows that it even existed.
mint2 4y ago
<Sees Poor planning and foot dragging of a state in adopting a new tech, blames new tech> <Sees person buy a triangle and try to shove it in a square hole, thinks triangles are inherently bad> <sees climate change, doesn’t care because part of solution requires some temporary minor inconveniences during transition. Hashtag not worth it> Using a car intended for short daily commutes for a road trip is going to be awkward in a state that has not really been trying to build ev infrastructure. If they don’t do many trips in laggard states, Renting a Tesla or even an ice would work on that rare occasion. If they do many trips then they bought the wrong car. Even with that non-road-trip car, it would have been okay on most long trips in California because the state is actually encouraging evs. Expecting a new tech to have the same infrastructure as the old from the get go or otherwise abandoning it would have left us with horses. Stables existed gas stations did not. Evs are so much quieter, Much more pleasant to drive. They produce less “horse manure and smells” so their adoption is inevitable. Although the worst manures ice cars make are unfortunately not plainly visible, the visible ones are enough to drive people away from them.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  This is just painting a lipstick on a pig. BEVs are expensive cars with expensive fuel (no most people won't be able to charge at home) and miniscule range. However they will be forced down the throats of consumers regardless of their inferiority. It is like going from cars back to horses and pretending that it is better.
  - mint2 4y ago
    Okay so computers revolutionized society. cars did too. So did air travel. All started as expensive niche items most people could not afford. Look at them now. They became cheap and widespread. They all had naysayers and doubters in their time. With the logic in those comments, all of those should have been abandoned. No computers, no cars, no airplanes. All too expensive initially! No one is going to force you to like EVs. If they aren’t your thing it’s okay. But the writing is on the wall, they are definitely horses, and on the way out. They’re loud and stink especially when cold. They require annoying expensive trips to fuel up and require more maintenance. (Side note, of the handful of times my credit card has been stolen, it’s usually been a gas station skimmer.) Unless on a road trip, Evs don’t required one to go to fueling stations. And you’re right some people don’t have charging at home, but most people rightly see that as only a matter of time.