3 ms·

You may be right, but as a personal anecdote, I totally agree with the sentiment you're responding to. I don't particularly enjoy working from the office and mu

You may be right, but as a personal anecdote, I totally agree with the sentiment you're responding to. I don't particularly enjoy working from the office and much prefer doing so from home, but I can tolerate it. I like my colleagues and shooting the breeze with them, but they're not my friends. But boy do I absolutely hate my commute, to the point that it shadows whatever positives there are when working from the office. I live and work in Paris (proper), a "big EU city with plenty of things to do". My commute is less than one hour each way by public transit (and I'm lucky enough that my line is rarely affected by random incidents or strikes). But boy do I hate it with a passion. It's time that is basically wasted. Yes, I read a bit, but it's much worse than if I took the time to read sitting in my sofa. I also get a bit of exercise, but again, it's much worse than if I went for a stroll at a more convenient time. It's a block of time that is fairly fixed during the day and which is tiring without getting much of anything in return.

ghaff 4y ago
In the US, I have about a five minute drive to the nearby train station and then I'm something over an hour by train and subway into the city depending upon where I'm going. Aside from not being able to actually walk to the train station, I'm not sure how you improve on that given the distance no matter what country you're in. And having done that commute about 3 days a week for over a year, it was pretty bad even though I wasn't driving.
- z9znz 4y ago
  Your public transport options are not common for most US dwellers. There are 10s of millions of people in the US who don't have access to any real public transport, especially trains.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Yes, I think it probably is uncommonly good for the US--all the hate the MBTA gets notwithstanding. But that's sort of my point. The city has relatively good public transit that is pretty much as convenient to me as is reasonable. And the commute still sucks. (I'm pretty far out but not unreasonably so.)
- petsfed 4y ago
  I think the way to improve that is to somehow lower the cost of housing, such that workers can afford to live close enough to the office to minimize the time cost of commuting. When I was commuting in the Bay Area, I'd walk half a mile to the local BART station (a walk I rather enjoyed), then I'd spend the next 90 minutes on a bus or train until I arrived at work. If I got to BART after 6am, I'd stand on the train for the first 60 minutes. Then I'd reverse the whole thing on the way home, although I typically got on the train early enough that I could sit the whole ride home. All of that, because that is what I could afford to do. The funny thing is, if I was paid at my hourly equivalent for all of that time spent commuting, I could afford to live closer to the office. I don't know that I like working from home per se, but I definitely hated that I spent 1-3 hours a day, every day, traveling, when I could be doing something I wanted to do. My ability to have hobbies, or spend meaningful time with my family, is basically blunted by the fact that I can't afford to house my family close to where I work. Its better now that I'm out of the Bay Area, but it's still a problem, and will be a problem, for the foreseeable future.
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    I agree with you on principle. However, in practice, I don't know how that would work out. In places like Paris, for example, jobs tend to be very concentrated in a few hotspots. This is a nightmare for infrastructure, like you can imagine because everybody wants to get to the same place at the same time. There were attempts to "distribute" this, but as far as I can tell, they didn't really work out as expected. I still think that this distribution is the best approach, though, instead of building 200-story buildings around the office towers. And this distribution can take multiple forms, one of which is remote working.
thewebcount 4y ago
Exactly! Over the last 2 years, I've rekindled my love of making music. I hadn't written any new music in over 20 years, and in the last 2 years, I've written something like 20 songs, and spent time archiving and restoring some older tapes I have. Stuff that would have been lost without the extra time. I now spend about 45-60 minutes every night just making music. It doesn't bother my spouse because they see me far more often since I'm working from home. Once I have to go back into the office, that's 60 minutes of my day spent commuting, and 8-9 hours not seeing my spouse. I'm not sure I'll have any time for music anymore. And having that outlet is helping to keep me sane.
- z9znz 4y ago
  Clearly life is better for you and your spouse with you working remotely. So stick to that plan, even if you have to pass up some lucrative onsite offers in the future. Quality of life beats pay!
ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago
Preach, I haven't been to Paris since the Covid restrictions started and I feel so much more rested, I added the 2-3 hours commute to my sleep time and you couldn't get me to leave my dead little suburban town for any salary. I do feel some nostalgia for the in-office days but mostly for the times I was alone, like driving through an industrial zone at 5 A.M and seeing the bright red lights of a biochemical plant, the smell of car exhaust for some reason, seeing someone sitting at their desk by the single lit window of an office tower, getting to work first and getting to turn on the lights and get the coffee ready in a completely empty and silent building among many completely empty and silent buildings.
- z9znz 4y ago
  > 5 A.M and seeing the bright red lights of a biochemical plant, the smell of car exhaust This gives me visions of Need For Speed: Porsche Unleashed in the industrial zone. Looking back at my younger self (who regularly drove 190+ kph to work on the freeway), I relish this idea. But is there more to it? The night-time high speed driving, the office-before-others situation... is that not some unique sense of freedom or power? \ For me there is definitely magic in being a capable human in isolation with power to live and excel, especially when I know there will be other humans appearing later. Even at home remotely, there is a sense of power being in control of myself, my coffee-making, my news reading, and then optionally my meeting attendance...

ghaff 4y ago

In the US, I have about a five minute drive to the nearby train station and then I'm something over an hour by train and subway into the city depending upon where I'm going. Aside from not being able to actually walk to the train station, I'm not sure how you improve on that given the distance no matter what country you're in. And having done that commute about 3 days a week for over a year, it was pretty bad even though I wasn't driving.

z9znz 4y ago
Your public transport options are not common for most US dwellers. There are 10s of millions of people in the US who don't have access to any real public transport, especially trains.
- ghaff 4y ago
  Yes, I think it probably is uncommonly good for the US--all the hate the MBTA gets notwithstanding. But that's sort of my point. The city has relatively good public transit that is pretty much as convenient to me as is reasonable. And the commute still sucks. (I'm pretty far out but not unreasonably so.)
petsfed 4y ago
I think the way to improve that is to somehow lower the cost of housing, such that workers can afford to live close enough to the office to minimize the time cost of commuting. When I was commuting in the Bay Area, I'd walk half a mile to the local BART station (a walk I rather enjoyed), then I'd spend the next 90 minutes on a bus or train until I arrived at work. If I got to BART after 6am, I'd stand on the train for the first 60 minutes. Then I'd reverse the whole thing on the way home, although I typically got on the train early enough that I could sit the whole ride home. All of that, because that is what I could afford to do. The funny thing is, if I was paid at my hourly equivalent for all of that time spent commuting, I could afford to live closer to the office. I don't know that I like working from home per se, but I definitely hated that I spent 1-3 hours a day, every day, traveling, when I could be doing something I wanted to do. My ability to have hobbies, or spend meaningful time with my family, is basically blunted by the fact that I can't afford to house my family close to where I work. Its better now that I'm out of the Bay Area, but it's still a problem, and will be a problem, for the foreseeable future.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  I agree with you on principle. However, in practice, I don't know how that would work out. In places like Paris, for example, jobs tend to be very concentrated in a few hotspots. This is a nightmare for infrastructure, like you can imagine because everybody wants to get to the same place at the same time. There were attempts to "distribute" this, but as far as I can tell, they didn't really work out as expected. I still think that this distribution is the best approach, though, instead of building 200-story buildings around the office towers. And this distribution can take multiple forms, one of which is remote working.

thewebcount 4y ago

Exactly! Over the last 2 years, I've rekindled my love of making music. I hadn't written any new music in over 20 years, and in the last 2 years, I've written something like 20 songs, and spent time archiving and restoring some older tapes I have. Stuff that would have been lost without the extra time. I now spend about 45-60 minutes every night just making music. It doesn't bother my spouse because they see me far more often since I'm working from home. Once I have to go back into the office, that's 60 minutes of my day spent commuting, and 8-9 hours not seeing my spouse. I'm not sure I'll have any time for music anymore. And having that outlet is helping to keep me sane.

z9znz 4y ago
Clearly life is better for you and your spouse with you working remotely. So stick to that plan, even if you have to pass up some lucrative onsite offers in the future. Quality of life beats pay!

ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago

Preach, I haven't been to Paris since the Covid restrictions started and I feel so much more rested, I added the 2-3 hours commute to my sleep time and you couldn't get me to leave my dead little suburban town for any salary. I do feel some nostalgia for the in-office days but mostly for the times I was alone, like driving through an industrial zone at 5 A.M and seeing the bright red lights of a biochemical plant, the smell of car exhaust for some reason, seeing someone sitting at their desk by the single lit window of an office tower, getting to work first and getting to turn on the lights and get the coffee ready in a completely empty and silent building among many completely empty and silent buildings.

z9znz 4y ago
> 5 A.M and seeing the bright red lights of a biochemical plant, the smell of car exhaust This gives me visions of Need For Speed: Porsche Unleashed in the industrial zone. Looking back at my younger self (who regularly drove 190+ kph to work on the freeway), I relish this idea. But is there more to it? The night-time high speed driving, the office-before-others situation... is that not some unique sense of freedom or power? \ For me there is definitely magic in being a capable human in isolation with power to live and excel, especially when I know there will be other humans appearing later. Even at home remotely, there is a sense of power being in control of myself, my coffee-making, my news reading, and then optionally my meeting attendance...