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It is very cynic to stipulate a growth when the country lost its industrial regions due to Russian invasion By the way the historical issue of corruption is not

by karkov 4y ago

It is very cynic to stipulate a growth when the country lost its industrial regions due to Russian invasion By the way the historical issue of corruption is not yet answered https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/why-is-ukraine-such-an-economic-failure https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/why-is-ukraine-such-an-eco...

nix23 4y ago
[flagged]
- darthrupert 4y ago
  We don't have to downvote truth, dear HN. Ukrainians' positive sentiments toward a clearly nazi individual is a problem, but it doesn't nullify Russia's imperalism and it doesn't justify their own form of fascism.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > Ukrainians' positive sentiments toward a clearly nazi individual is a problem It’s also irrelevant. I am anti-stealing. But if I’m being assaulted by a madman and a professional thief steps in to help, I’m going to take their help and I’m going to thank them for it.
    - nix23 4y ago
      Again i am absolutely against the russian aggression. But just imagine Merkel would say (in 2010) Goebbels is now a "Hero of Germany for "defending national ideas and battling for an independent German state"" ....national ideas by killing 130'000 Children's, Woman's and unarmed Men's.... It's not irrelevant if a massive amount of your population thinks your better then others and being a nazi is a good thing, and peoples from Donetsk are subhumans. Then they forbid to teach russian in schools, and russian speaking -> Ukrainian channel's had to switch language, same with newsletter's (i think that was 2019), really that's not nationalist bullshit?? But btw...are you also anti killing...because that's what Bandera and the Azov Regiment do and did. And just if you haven't read it, i am against the russian aggression. The problem with your example is that the thief and the madman are both equal bad for your country/house, you are just the buffer and the bleeding part between those two. It's called proxy-war.
      - zarqan 4y ago
        > But just imagine Merkel would say (in 2010) Goebbels is now a "Hero of Germany for "defending national ideas and battling for an independent German state Germany is a poor example for your point. Both the German government and the German federal army still honour Col. Stauffenberg as a "role model" (Here is an article from a 2019 ceremony commemorating the attempted 20 July coup where they clearly state this: https://www.dbwv.de/aktuelle-themen/blickpunkt/beitrag/regierung-und-bundeswehr-gedenken-hitler-attentaetern/ https://www.dbwv.de/aktuelle-themen/blickpunkt/beitrag/regie... - it's in German, but you can use google translate). Note that Stauffenberg - despite his attempted coup - never repudiated fascism, antisemitism, or German militarism. Same goes for other well-known European politicians e.g. "father of the Austrian Republic" Karl Renner, an anti-semite who opposed the return of Jews even after the reestablishment of independent Austria post-WWII. In general, many interwar European "national role models" were unreconstructed racists who held abhorrent beliefs. > It's not irrelevant if a massive amount of your population thinks your better then others and being a nazi is a good thing, and peoples from Donetsk are subhumans. Then they forbid to teach russian in schools, and russian speaking -> Ukrainian channel's had to switch language, same with newsletter's (i think that was 2019), really that's not nationalist bullshit?? The law in question sets quotas for the use of Ukrainian in official media outlets & education, and mandates the use of Ukrainian as a national language. The UN produced a report on the law [1], and notes that "Many of the controversial points were subsequently addressed in the final version". The law does not ban Russian (or any other minority language) in any way. Many democratic states in the EU incl. France, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania have language policies which are arguably harsher & much more restrictive than anything implemented in Ukraine. In particular, France is especially aggressive in enforcing the use of French in public & commercial settings and actively issues fines to companies that do not abide by the language law. [1] https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2020-07/2019.09.11%20-%20Analytical%20Note%20-%20Language%20Law%20ENG.pdf https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2020-07/2019.09.1...
      - hbrn 4y ago
        > It's called proxy-war. And what are the sides in this proxy war, US and Russia? Was it a proxy war when Crimea was annexed? Or when Russian military entered eastern Ukraine? Or when Georgia was invaded? Either US is surprisingly good at starting these proxy wars and Russia is incredibly stupid to be falling for the same trick over and over and over. Or maybe those are just land grabs by Russia, and US involvement here is tangential.
    - darthrupert 4y ago
      It is totally irrelevant now but massively relevant after the war is over, at least if Ukraine wins. It would be surprising if an onslaught from a sworn enemy wouldn't give a further rise to nationalistic sentiment. It would be understandable but it would also be a problem that needs to be fixed. Preferably before they join EU and Nato.
- hbrn 4y ago
  Somehow spikes in support for those correlate with Russia invasions. It's almost as if those are related... Fun fact: the only time when far right had any power in Ukrainian parliament was during pro-Russian president. After he fled to Russia they've never been able to cross electoral threshold. They currently hold one (!) seat in the parliament. That's all you need to know about Nazi support in Ukraine.
Proven 4y ago

by karkov 4y ago

nix23 4y ago

[flagged]

darthrupert 4y ago
We don't have to downvote truth, dear HN. Ukrainians' positive sentiments toward a clearly nazi individual is a problem, but it doesn't nullify Russia's imperalism and it doesn't justify their own form of fascism.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > Ukrainians' positive sentiments toward a clearly nazi individual is a problem It’s also irrelevant. I am anti-stealing. But if I’m being assaulted by a madman and a professional thief steps in to help, I’m going to take their help and I’m going to thank them for it.
  - nix23 4y ago
    Again i am absolutely against the russian aggression. But just imagine Merkel would say (in 2010) Goebbels is now a "Hero of Germany for "defending national ideas and battling for an independent German state"" ....national ideas by killing 130'000 Children's, Woman's and unarmed Men's.... It's not irrelevant if a massive amount of your population thinks your better then others and being a nazi is a good thing, and peoples from Donetsk are subhumans. Then they forbid to teach russian in schools, and russian speaking -> Ukrainian channel's had to switch language, same with newsletter's (i think that was 2019), really that's not nationalist bullshit?? But btw...are you also anti killing...because that's what Bandera and the Azov Regiment do and did. And just if you haven't read it, i am against the russian aggression. The problem with your example is that the thief and the madman are both equal bad for your country/house, you are just the buffer and the bleeding part between those two. It's called proxy-war.
    - zarqan 4y ago
      > But just imagine Merkel would say (in 2010) Goebbels is now a "Hero of Germany for "defending national ideas and battling for an independent German state Germany is a poor example for your point. Both the German government and the German federal army still honour Col. Stauffenberg as a "role model" (Here is an article from a 2019 ceremony commemorating the attempted 20 July coup where they clearly state this: https://www.dbwv.de/aktuelle-themen/blickpunkt/beitrag/regierung-und-bundeswehr-gedenken-hitler-attentaetern/ https://www.dbwv.de/aktuelle-themen/blickpunkt/beitrag/regie... - it's in German, but you can use google translate). Note that Stauffenberg - despite his attempted coup - never repudiated fascism, antisemitism, or German militarism. Same goes for other well-known European politicians e.g. "father of the Austrian Republic" Karl Renner, an anti-semite who opposed the return of Jews even after the reestablishment of independent Austria post-WWII. In general, many interwar European "national role models" were unreconstructed racists who held abhorrent beliefs. > It's not irrelevant if a massive amount of your population thinks your better then others and being a nazi is a good thing, and peoples from Donetsk are subhumans. Then they forbid to teach russian in schools, and russian speaking -> Ukrainian channel's had to switch language, same with newsletter's (i think that was 2019), really that's not nationalist bullshit?? The law in question sets quotas for the use of Ukrainian in official media outlets & education, and mandates the use of Ukrainian as a national language. The UN produced a report on the law [1], and notes that "Many of the controversial points were subsequently addressed in the final version". The law does not ban Russian (or any other minority language) in any way. Many democratic states in the EU incl. France, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania have language policies which are arguably harsher & much more restrictive than anything implemented in Ukraine. In particular, France is especially aggressive in enforcing the use of French in public & commercial settings and actively issues fines to companies that do not abide by the language law. [1] https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2020-07/2019.09.11%20-%20Analytical%20Note%20-%20Language%20Law%20ENG.pdf https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2020-07/2019.09.1...
    - hbrn 4y ago
      > It's called proxy-war. And what are the sides in this proxy war, US and Russia? Was it a proxy war when Crimea was annexed? Or when Russian military entered eastern Ukraine? Or when Georgia was invaded? Either US is surprisingly good at starting these proxy wars and Russia is incredibly stupid to be falling for the same trick over and over and over. Or maybe those are just land grabs by Russia, and US involvement here is tangential.
  - darthrupert 4y ago
    It is totally irrelevant now but massively relevant after the war is over, at least if Ukraine wins. It would be surprising if an onslaught from a sworn enemy wouldn't give a further rise to nationalistic sentiment. It would be understandable but it would also be a problem that needs to be fixed. Preferably before they join EU and Nato.
hbrn 4y ago
Somehow spikes in support for those correlate with Russia invasions. It's almost as if those are related... Fun fact: the only time when far right had any power in Ukrainian parliament was during pro-Russian president. After he fled to Russia they've never been able to cross electoral threshold. They currently hold one (!) seat in the parliament. That's all you need to know about Nazi support in Ukraine.

Proven 4y ago