4 ms·

Wargame: LaTeX package to prepare hex'n'counter wargames

149 points by ddougj 4y ago

woliveirajr 4y ago
Remember first time I tried to generate some hex map for wargames using a computer and realized that no one had printers bigger than A4, they were monochrome and so on... and how hard it was to generate one using just pencil and ruler.
- fho 4y ago
  > and how hard it was to generate one using just pencil and ruler Oh I did that when I was ... young :-) My aunt worked in the printing industry and we regularly got the big leftover paper rolls from her. I am talking about one meter by tens of meters. When I learned about wargaming I immediately drew a huge 2x2m hexmap by constructing the hexes from equally spaced triangles. Sadly that was before digital photography ... I would love to see that old map again.
spyremeown 4y ago
Are there any examples of maps generated with this? edit: https://gitlab.com/wargames_tex/afrikakorps_tex/-/jobs/3082479924/artifacts/file/AfrikaKorps-A4-master/splitboardA3.pdf https://gitlab.com/wargames_tex/afrikakorps_tex/-/jobs/30824... Their gitlab has some, looks beautiful!
- ddougj 4y ago
  The tutorial included with the package's documentation also contains some examples: https://ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/wargame/doc/tutorial/game.pdf https://ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/wargame/do... (Also, it's wonderful to see a package author provide both a reference document and a tutorial.)
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Some of the ctan packages have absolutely insane manuals https://ctan.math.illinois.edu/info/memdesign/memdesign.pdf https://ctan.math.illinois.edu/info/memdesign/memdesign.pdf Isn’t even the manual for memoir
V__ 4y ago
What makes LaTeX so horrible to use (for me) is the need to use packages for seemingly simple things which have weird dependencies and error messages only experienced users know how to deal with. This package is just one more layer of absurdity to me. Why does everything have to be solved with overly complex packages? Graphics are a thing for a reason. Am I alone in this?
- VMG 4y ago
  there are extremely few vector graphics libraries as powerful as TikZ
- eslaught 4y ago
  So it sounds like you're asking for a package where you get (basically) the ability to draw lines, circles, textures, etc.: the basic graphics primitives. Here's my question to you: would you really want to build a hex map at that level? To me, that just seems an awful lack of abstraction. It's one thing if everything you do is a one-off figure, but for this you really want something that packages it together in a way that makes sense. If you don't get that from something like this package, you're going to build it yourself (best case), or just do without (much more likely) resulting in ugly, impossible to maintain code. I know, because I've been there. Here's a challenge to you: what exists outside of the Latex community that is remotely comparable to this? (And not just this, but any of the number of other Latex packages that do similarly impressive things.) I could be wrong, but as far as I know those things generally don't exist. Maybe the closest match would be in the web/JavaScript community, but I don't think those things make it so easy to generate PDFs (especially high-quality ones). Latex, for all its faults, seems to encourage this sort of highly powerful level of abstraction. I share your frustrating in trying to get things to integrate, but for this sort of thing I just don't see a good alternative.
  - V__ 4y ago
    Sorry I was unclear, by graphics I meant it literary. SVGs, JPGs etc.
    - 4y ago
glomgril 4y ago
Brings back fond memories of fiddling with TikZ for hours instead of writing my dissertation
- feet 4y ago
  And on various homework assignments, I feel like I wasted so much time but the result was usually beautiful
- mdiesel 4y ago
  And then discovering that if you used latex for a presentation you could animate in tikz...
delta_p_delta_x 4y ago
TikZ is wonderful, and any graphics prepared with it just have an edge of professionalism that raster graphics don't. I really just wish we had a WYSIWYG interface for it, à la Illustrator or Inkscape (yes, the latter can export to TikZ, but I would like a vector graphics editor specifically to work with the TikZ model).
- jonititan 4y ago
  TikzEdt does but it hasn't been updated in ages. tikzedt.org/
theptip 4y ago
This is cool! I was just pondering some leisure coding on a hex-based game, and the manual for this package gives some good detail on the underlying mathematics for such a coordinate system.
- panzagl 4y ago
  See the hex grid reference stuff here: https://www.redblobgames.com/ https://www.redblobgames.com/ for basically everything you ever wanted to know about hex grids.
  - theptip 4y ago
    Sweet, thanks. They link to a specific collection of Hex references too: http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp/gameprog.html#hex http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp/gameprog.html#hex
PontifexMinimus 4y ago
On a related note, does anyone know of a Javascript/Typescript library (or framework) for doing hex-based wargaming on the web platform? Something that draws the maps, allows the user to give orders and move the units around, and resolves combat etc?
- JoeDaDude 4y ago
  Vassal is not exactly what you are asking for (not web based for example) and it does not generate maps or counters, you have to create your own and import them. But it does allow players to share a screen, move counters, and play a game over internet. This is known by most wargamers, so my apologies if I am pointing out the obvious,. https://vassalengine.org/ https://vassalengine.org/
  - PontifexMinimus 4y ago
    It wasn't known to me. It is now, thanks!
mmastrac 4y ago
I used to check out books from the library with hex/counter sheets in them. They had all sorts of themes, but they were fascinating to play with.
JoeDaDude 4y ago
Nice to see a freeware tool for this, it might be the only one. There is a commercial tool that works quite well if people don't wat to mess with with LaTeX: http://www.hexdraw.com/Word/ http://www.hexdraw.com/Word/
- Raineer 4y ago
  Meh, except it's not available.
wrp 4y ago
For an alternative, there is also an Inkscape extension for doing hexmaps and countersheets. (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/299033/inkscape-extensions-boardgame-development https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/299033/inkscape-extensions-...)

149 points by ddougj 4y ago

Remember first time I tried to generate some hex map for wargames using a computer and realized that no one had printers bigger than A4, they were monochrome and so on... and how hard it was to generate one using just pencil and ruler.

fho 4y ago
> and how hard it was to generate one using just pencil and ruler Oh I did that when I was ... young :-) My aunt worked in the printing industry and we regularly got the big leftover paper rolls from her. I am talking about one meter by tens of meters. When I learned about wargaming I immediately drew a huge 2x2m hexmap by constructing the hexes from equally spaced triangles. Sadly that was before digital photography ... I would love to see that old map again.

spyremeown 4y ago

Are there any examples of maps generated with this? edit: https://gitlab.com/wargames_tex/afrikakorps_tex/-/jobs/3082479924/artifacts/file/AfrikaKorps-A4-master/splitboardA3.pdf https://gitlab.com/wargames_tex/afrikakorps_tex/-/jobs/30824... Their gitlab has some, looks beautiful!

ddougj 4y ago
The tutorial included with the package's documentation also contains some examples: https://ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/wargame/doc/tutorial/game.pdf https://ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/wargame/do... (Also, it's wonderful to see a package author provide both a reference document and a tutorial.)
- bombcar 4y ago
  Some of the ctan packages have absolutely insane manuals https://ctan.math.illinois.edu/info/memdesign/memdesign.pdf https://ctan.math.illinois.edu/info/memdesign/memdesign.pdf Isn’t even the manual for memoir

V__ 4y ago

What makes LaTeX so horrible to use (for me) is the need to use packages for seemingly simple things which have weird dependencies and error messages only experienced users know how to deal with. This package is just one more layer of absurdity to me. Why does everything have to be solved with overly complex packages? Graphics are a thing for a reason. Am I alone in this?

VMG 4y ago
there are extremely few vector graphics libraries as powerful as TikZ
eslaught 4y ago
So it sounds like you're asking for a package where you get (basically) the ability to draw lines, circles, textures, etc.: the basic graphics primitives. Here's my question to you: would you really want to build a hex map at that level? To me, that just seems an awful lack of abstraction. It's one thing if everything you do is a one-off figure, but for this you really want something that packages it together in a way that makes sense. If you don't get that from something like this package, you're going to build it yourself (best case), or just do without (much more likely) resulting in ugly, impossible to maintain code. I know, because I've been there. Here's a challenge to you: what exists outside of the Latex community that is remotely comparable to this? (And not just this, but any of the number of other Latex packages that do similarly impressive things.) I could be wrong, but as far as I know those things generally don't exist. Maybe the closest match would be in the web/JavaScript community, but I don't think those things make it so easy to generate PDFs (especially high-quality ones). Latex, for all its faults, seems to encourage this sort of highly powerful level of abstraction. I share your frustrating in trying to get things to integrate, but for this sort of thing I just don't see a good alternative.
- V__ 4y ago
  Sorry I was unclear, by graphics I meant it literary. SVGs, JPGs etc.
  - 4y ago

glomgril 4y ago

Brings back fond memories of fiddling with TikZ for hours instead of writing my dissertation

feet 4y ago
And on various homework assignments, I feel like I wasted so much time but the result was usually beautiful
mdiesel 4y ago
And then discovering that if you used latex for a presentation you could animate in tikz...

delta_p_delta_x 4y ago

TikZ is wonderful, and any graphics prepared with it just have an edge of professionalism that raster graphics don't. I really just wish we had a WYSIWYG interface for it, à la Illustrator or Inkscape (yes, the latter can export to TikZ, but I would like a vector graphics editor specifically to work with the TikZ model).

jonititan 4y ago
TikzEdt does but it hasn't been updated in ages. tikzedt.org/

theptip 4y ago

This is cool! I was just pondering some leisure coding on a hex-based game, and the manual for this package gives some good detail on the underlying mathematics for such a coordinate system.

panzagl 4y ago
See the hex grid reference stuff here: https://www.redblobgames.com/ https://www.redblobgames.com/ for basically everything you ever wanted to know about hex grids.
- theptip 4y ago
  Sweet, thanks. They link to a specific collection of Hex references too: http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp/gameprog.html#hex http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp/gameprog.html#hex

PontifexMinimus 4y ago

On a related note, does anyone know of a Javascript/Typescript library (or framework) for doing hex-based wargaming on the web platform? Something that draws the maps, allows the user to give orders and move the units around, and resolves combat etc?

JoeDaDude 4y ago
Vassal is not exactly what you are asking for (not web based for example) and it does not generate maps or counters, you have to create your own and import them. But it does allow players to share a screen, move counters, and play a game over internet. This is known by most wargamers, so my apologies if I am pointing out the obvious,. https://vassalengine.org/ https://vassalengine.org/
- PontifexMinimus 4y ago
  It wasn't known to me. It is now, thanks!

mmastrac 4y ago

I used to check out books from the library with hex/counter sheets in them. They had all sorts of themes, but they were fascinating to play with.

JoeDaDude 4y ago

Nice to see a freeware tool for this, it might be the only one. There is a commercial tool that works quite well if people don't wat to mess with with LaTeX: http://www.hexdraw.com/Word/ http://www.hexdraw.com/Word/

Raineer 4y ago
Meh, except it's not available.

wrp 4y ago

For an alternative, there is also an Inkscape extension for doing hexmaps and countersheets. (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/299033/inkscape-extensions-boardgame-development https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/299033/inkscape-extensions-...)