6 ms·

Uh yeah there’s nothing overtly political in the show. People that are getting political vibes from the show all seem to be pointing to being annoyed about colo

by joxel 4y ago

Uh yeah there’s nothing overtly political in the show. People that are getting political vibes from the show all seem to be pointing to being annoyed about color blind casting. That’s not political, unless you’re the kind that thinks having black people in stuff is political, which is sad.

lotsofspots 4y ago
The "elves will take our jobs!" scene in Numenor was pretty overt.
- jacquesc 4y ago
  Yeah, that part was laughable. No one in Numenor has seen an elf in 100s of years. One elf shows up, and all of a sudden the trade unions think they'll lose all their jobs to her
- morelisp 4y ago
  On the other hand the show's attitude is overall middling-positive about the elvish imperial state - and on top of that Galadriel's multi-century War on Terror is ultimately justified. I don't think the story is coherent enough to be making a real political statement, even if a few scenes gesture wildly at a few vague (and contradictory) political ideas.
icare_1er 4y ago
I remember how comically absurd it sounded when I saw women on Iranian TV: because the regime does not allow hair, even women in bed are pictured with a hijab on, in their movies. :D The less funny thing now, is that the West has reached that level of absurdity without noticing, because a women sleeping with her hijab on, or an underground black creature (ork), or a black medieval British princess (as seen on some BBC shows), is pretty much the same level of insanity. And you're right, of course there is nothing political in that. :)
- joxel 4y ago
  - icare_1er 4y ago
    - joxel 4y ago
Physkal 4y ago
Token specifically labeled elves as fair skinned. Why divert from the source material and change that?
- morelisp 4y ago
  Why is this the thing that matters to you rather than the legendarium's real foundations of divinity, creation, power, and temptation?
  - karencarits 4y ago
    Well, if I recall correctly, the elves appeared long before the sun was created and are attracted to the night and the moon (when it appeared) and the stars. The sun is important for humans and the first sunrise was in a sense a sign that the ages of elves were over. In my mind, at least, the elves' had skin that resembled moonlight Edit: See e.g., The Silmarillion, ch. 11: "for the Sun was set as a sign for the awakening of Men and the waning of the Elves, but the Moon cherishes their memory"
    - morelisp 4y ago
      You don't recall correctly; elves awoke to only stars. Both the sun and the moon come at the same time, much later. It's true the elves preferred the moon but I don't recall any explicit reason for this; I'd interpret it as part of the overarching theme that elves are more staid, less visibly intense, than men in general. Which is all to say - I don't see any relationship with skin color.
      - karencarits 4y ago
        You are right about the stars and my statement was unclear. The elves awoke as Varda made new and brighter stars, and it is stated that "their eyes beheld first of all things the stars of heaven. Therefore they have ever loved the starlight" When looking in the Silmarillion, it seems that they primarilly loved the stars and aspecific preference forthe moon is not mentioned. However, the moon came first (as the elves, compared to the humans) and traveled over the sky several times before the sun first appeared; "Isil was first wrought and made ready, and first rose into the realm of the stars, and was the elder of the new lights, as was Telperion of the Trees. Then for a while the world had moonlight [...] Tilion had traversed the heaven seven times, and thus was in the furthest east, when the vessel of Arien was made ready" and "the Sun was set as a sign for the awakening of Men and the waning of the Elves, but the Moon cherishes their memory" Why it matters? So, in my opinion, that the elves may be fair or perhaps pale in the skin makes sence symbolically due to their relationship to the night and the stars (and perhaps the moon). Also, in humans, there tends to be a relationship between the sun exposure of an area and skin color but I don't think we know how this affect elves (how their bodies work, some born before the sun was created, living for very long time, etc.)
MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
> unless you’re the kind that thinks having black people in stuff is political, which is sad His point was literally that "having black people in stuff is political", so what exactly is your argument? Tolkien described elves as fair skinned, so there must have been an explicit decision by the show runners to override this, for reasons that could reasonably described as political. If you think that equality / equity etc agenda is not political "because it is the right thing to do", maybe take a moment and reflect on that.
Fervicus 4y ago
Quite sad how flagging a comment is often used as a tool to suppress "wrongthink".

by joxel 4y ago

lotsofspots 4y ago

The "elves will take our jobs!" scene in Numenor was pretty overt.

jacquesc 4y ago
Yeah, that part was laughable. No one in Numenor has seen an elf in 100s of years. One elf shows up, and all of a sudden the trade unions think they'll lose all their jobs to her
morelisp 4y ago
On the other hand the show's attitude is overall middling-positive about the elvish imperial state - and on top of that Galadriel's multi-century War on Terror is ultimately justified. I don't think the story is coherent enough to be making a real political statement, even if a few scenes gesture wildly at a few vague (and contradictory) political ideas.

icare_1er 4y ago

I remember how comically absurd it sounded when I saw women on Iranian TV: because the regime does not allow hair, even women in bed are pictured with a hijab on, in their movies. :D The less funny thing now, is that the West has reached that level of absurdity without noticing, because a women sleeping with her hijab on, or an underground black creature (ork), or a black medieval British princess (as seen on some BBC shows), is pretty much the same level of insanity. And you're right, of course there is nothing political in that. :)

joxel 4y ago
- icare_1er 4y ago
  - joxel 4y ago

Physkal 4y ago

Token specifically labeled elves as fair skinned. Why divert from the source material and change that?

morelisp 4y ago
Why is this the thing that matters to you rather than the legendarium's real foundations of divinity, creation, power, and temptation?
- karencarits 4y ago
  Well, if I recall correctly, the elves appeared long before the sun was created and are attracted to the night and the moon (when it appeared) and the stars. The sun is important for humans and the first sunrise was in a sense a sign that the ages of elves were over. In my mind, at least, the elves' had skin that resembled moonlight Edit: See e.g., The Silmarillion, ch. 11: "for the Sun was set as a sign for the awakening of Men and the waning of the Elves, but the Moon cherishes their memory"
  - morelisp 4y ago
    You don't recall correctly; elves awoke to only stars. Both the sun and the moon come at the same time, much later. It's true the elves preferred the moon but I don't recall any explicit reason for this; I'd interpret it as part of the overarching theme that elves are more staid, less visibly intense, than men in general. Which is all to say - I don't see any relationship with skin color.
    - karencarits 4y ago
      You are right about the stars and my statement was unclear. The elves awoke as Varda made new and brighter stars, and it is stated that "their eyes beheld first of all things the stars of heaven. Therefore they have ever loved the starlight" When looking in the Silmarillion, it seems that they primarilly loved the stars and aspecific preference forthe moon is not mentioned. However, the moon came first (as the elves, compared to the humans) and traveled over the sky several times before the sun first appeared; "Isil was first wrought and made ready, and first rose into the realm of the stars, and was the elder of the new lights, as was Telperion of the Trees. Then for a while the world had moonlight [...] Tilion had traversed the heaven seven times, and thus was in the furthest east, when the vessel of Arien was made ready" and "the Sun was set as a sign for the awakening of Men and the waning of the Elves, but the Moon cherishes their memory" Why it matters? So, in my opinion, that the elves may be fair or perhaps pale in the skin makes sence symbolically due to their relationship to the night and the stars (and perhaps the moon). Also, in humans, there tends to be a relationship between the sun exposure of an area and skin color but I don't think we know how this affect elves (how their bodies work, some born before the sun was created, living for very long time, etc.)

MrBuddyCasino 4y ago

> unless you’re the kind that thinks having black people in stuff is political, which is sad His point was literally that "having black people in stuff is political", so what exactly is your argument? Tolkien described elves as fair skinned, so there must have been an explicit decision by the show runners to override this, for reasons that could reasonably described as political. If you think that equality / equity etc agenda is not political "because it is the right thing to do", maybe take a moment and reflect on that.

Fervicus 4y ago

Quite sad how flagging a comment is often used as a tool to suppress "wrongthink".