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For the record, anyone working in the HW sector will tell you, Chinese suppliers will often try to scam you by delivering you parts that are faulty or lower spe

For the record, anyone working in the HW sector will tell you, Chinese suppliers will often try to scam you by delivering you parts that are faulty or lower spec than originally agreed and see if you notice. If you don't notice, then it's fair game and more money for them. They don't consider this swap as doing anything illegal or wrong if you don't notice, so you really need to have solid QA in house to keep your suppliers accountable, as this is a constant struggle. It's sad, but this is how business is done in this racket. Russia is now stuck between a rock and a hard place, with very little choice of suppliers and Chinese businesses know it and are taking this practice to the next level (beggars can't be choosers). I can't find the comment now, but one HN member told a story here on how their POS credit card readers they sent for production to China, were being tampered with by malicious employees on the supplier side who were shaving internal parts of the case assembly to plant skimmers inside that would beam the credit card data. They were going so far as to match the weight of the tampered device to meet the spec by the milligram to avoid weight detection countermeasures. Insane.

null_object 4y ago
I think this is essentially the major theme of this book: https://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production-ebook/dp/B004G5Z2A8/ https://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- gumby 4y ago
  This is really a short, useful book for anyone getting stuff remotely manufactured in China. Some examples of what went wrong from someone who lived there (so things shouldn't have gone wrong). A good example of a problem: supplier underbids to get the business; first and second shipment are fine, then the third has an unauthorized change because now the factory wants to cut their costs to make a profit. In the author's case IIRC it was shampoo: he ordered a set in different scents (lilac, almond, coconut perhaps?). Suddenly all he got was almond because I suppose the factory got a better deal if they bought more. Also remember that Apple gets the quality they do by having a lot of their own personnel on site to stay on top of everything that is going on. You can't afford that.
captainmuon 4y ago
You get what you pay for, especially in China. Many vendors are completely upfront with this, and you have to pay extra for "good" good parts. Just like you can pay for a test certificate, but you have to pay extra if you want them to actually test your stuff - I would have expected it to be the other way around to be honest.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Even paying extra for the good "good" part is no guarantee of honesty and quality. Unless you're a juggernaut like Apple, after a while they'll start shoving in sub-par components in the shipments to test your QA and see if they can squeeze more money out of you. It's just how they do business.
  - dncornholio 4y ago
    If all China manufactures are like you described, nobody would do business in China again. I'm sure there are plenty of honest Chinese suppliers.
    - exmadscientist 4y ago
      There are plenty! The trouble is finding them. Once you do, hold on to them – they can be very valuable. A good place to start is making sure you're paying a fair price for whatever it is you're buying. Anything too cheap is definitely trouble. (And, of course, this condition is necessary, not sufficient.)
    - POPOSYS 4y ago
      Why are you sure? Do you have any facts / numbers / experiences? Do you have a good QA for incoming components? If yes, you will see a pattern.
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      The problem is the market filters them out.. because the dishonest ones are more successful and the law does not care about foreign customers.
vintermann 4y ago
This isn't just a China and chips thing, it's a general supplier thing. My mom ran a small cafe once, and complained that the wholesaler would regularly try to foist out of date coffee on them. It's something I keep arguing: there's a price associated with policing, keeping, people honest. If there is intense competition, the pressure to cheat is also intense, and what you gain from competition may well be eaten up by the cost of policing. So competition isn't a panacea, it has rapidly diminishing returns. (My mom's wholesaler, though, were pretty much a monopoly, who did this sort of thing just because they could. A different failure case!)
krona 4y ago
I think you're describing the guilt vs shame cultural differences. This cultural difference between Russia and China isn't as big as it is to north european/US culture.

null_object 4y ago

I think this is essentially the major theme of this book: https://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production-ebook/dp/B004G5Z2A8/ https://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
gumby 4y ago
This is really a short, useful book for anyone getting stuff remotely manufactured in China. Some examples of what went wrong from someone who lived there (so things shouldn't have gone wrong). A good example of a problem: supplier underbids to get the business; first and second shipment are fine, then the third has an unauthorized change because now the factory wants to cut their costs to make a profit. In the author's case IIRC it was shampoo: he ordered a set in different scents (lilac, almond, coconut perhaps?). Suddenly all he got was almond because I suppose the factory got a better deal if they bought more. Also remember that Apple gets the quality they do by having a lot of their own personnel on site to stay on top of everything that is going on. You can't afford that.

captainmuon 4y ago

You get what you pay for, especially in China. Many vendors are completely upfront with this, and you have to pay extra for "good" good parts. Just like you can pay for a test certificate, but you have to pay extra if you want them to actually test your stuff - I would have expected it to be the other way around to be honest.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Even paying extra for the good "good" part is no guarantee of honesty and quality. Unless you're a juggernaut like Apple, after a while they'll start shoving in sub-par components in the shipments to test your QA and see if they can squeeze more money out of you. It's just how they do business.
- dncornholio 4y ago
  If all China manufactures are like you described, nobody would do business in China again. I'm sure there are plenty of honest Chinese suppliers.
  - exmadscientist 4y ago
    There are plenty! The trouble is finding them. Once you do, hold on to them – they can be very valuable. A good place to start is making sure you're paying a fair price for whatever it is you're buying. Anything too cheap is definitely trouble. (And, of course, this condition is necessary, not sufficient.)
  - POPOSYS 4y ago
    Why are you sure? Do you have any facts / numbers / experiences? Do you have a good QA for incoming components? If yes, you will see a pattern.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    The problem is the market filters them out.. because the dishonest ones are more successful and the law does not care about foreign customers.

vintermann 4y ago

This isn't just a China and chips thing, it's a general supplier thing. My mom ran a small cafe once, and complained that the wholesaler would regularly try to foist out of date coffee on them. It's something I keep arguing: there's a price associated with policing, keeping, people honest. If there is intense competition, the pressure to cheat is also intense, and what you gain from competition may well be eaten up by the cost of policing. So competition isn't a panacea, it has rapidly diminishing returns. (My mom's wholesaler, though, were pretty much a monopoly, who did this sort of thing just because they could. A different failure case!)

krona 4y ago

I think you're describing the guilt vs shame cultural differences. This cultural difference between Russia and China isn't as big as it is to north european/US culture.