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I suspect you are misperceiving the lay of the land there. It's true California does tax fossil fuels, but much of those taxes are more than offset by subsidie

I suspect you are misperceiving the lay of the land there. It's true California does tax fossil fuels, but much of those taxes are more than offset by subsidies that go right back to the industry. The state did recently (as in a few months ago) ended one of their subsidies for fossil fuels, saving ~$160 million/year, which is a huge deal. That said, there's still substantial subsidies for fossil fuels a the state level, and the feds chip in close to $15 billion/yr. The overall subsidy picture for fossil fuels dwarfs the subsidies for renewables. https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/10/6/16428458/us-energy-coal-oil-subsidies https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/10/6/1642845...

trashtester 4y ago
> I suspect you are misperceiving the lay of the land there. I doubt that, since I was not making statements about California or any other location in the US, specifically. Which is why I didn't respond specifically to your previous comment. Which I will do now: > Would you count subsides for fossil fuels as externalities? ;-) My baseline assumption is that all fossil fuel subsidies are removed. If not, then yes, just slap the same amount back on through taxes. Where I live, petrol taxes are about 5x higher than in California, with no subsidies. Use of fossil fuels for most other purposes, such as residential heating is banned. And cars have huge additional sales taxes, based on fuel consumption. Budget cars start at 2-2.5x the price compared to the US, while for fuel guzzlers it is way higher, easily adding $100-$300k for a sports car. Also, expect to pay $3 toll road tax to drive into the nearest large city. Toll roads are used to limit traffic in built-up areas, to keep local pollution down. Meanwhile, electric cars have zero to low taxes and some priority access in some parking lots, bus lanes, etc. GDP per capita is similar to California, but all these taxes make purchasing power a bit lower. Still, if I park my car at the grocery store, about 50% of the cars there will be electric and maybe 20% of the total will be Teslas. Most of the petrol cars remaining are old, cheap ones. Clearly taxes do work. I would argue that my country has actually done what California seems (at least pretend) to want to do.
- cbsmith 4y ago
  > I doubt that, since I was not making statements about California or any other location in the US, specifically. Which is why I didn't respond specifically to your previous comment. Yup, it was me who was misperceiving what you were saying. Thanks for clarifying.

trashtester 4y ago

> I suspect you are misperceiving the lay of the land there. I doubt that, since I was not making statements about California or any other location in the US, specifically. Which is why I didn't respond specifically to your previous comment. Which I will do now: > Would you count subsides for fossil fuels as externalities? ;-) My baseline assumption is that all fossil fuel subsidies are removed. If not, then yes, just slap the same amount back on through taxes. Where I live, petrol taxes are about 5x higher than in California, with no subsidies. Use of fossil fuels for most other purposes, such as residential heating is banned. And cars have huge additional sales taxes, based on fuel consumption. Budget cars start at 2-2.5x the price compared to the US, while for fuel guzzlers it is way higher, easily adding $100-$300k for a sports car. Also, expect to pay $3 toll road tax to drive into the nearest large city. Toll roads are used to limit traffic in built-up areas, to keep local pollution down. Meanwhile, electric cars have zero to low taxes and some priority access in some parking lots, bus lanes, etc. GDP per capita is similar to California, but all these taxes make purchasing power a bit lower. Still, if I park my car at the grocery store, about 50% of the cars there will be electric and maybe 20% of the total will be Teslas. Most of the petrol cars remaining are old, cheap ones. Clearly taxes do work. I would argue that my country has actually done what California seems (at least pretend) to want to do.

cbsmith 4y ago
> I doubt that, since I was not making statements about California or any other location in the US, specifically. Which is why I didn't respond specifically to your previous comment. Yup, it was me who was misperceiving what you were saying. Thanks for clarifying.